Oh boy. Better to stay away from any cable news outlet.

wait, so a family that you know, whose tax information you know well enough to judge morally and ethically if it was right or wrong, got money back from the government while you and your husband didn’t. And because that pisses you off, you’re gonna show the government your anger by watching Fox News again? WTF?

How much do you really know of that family’s tax liabilities? Could it be that they did something last year that would have given them money back? Now, if your family owes taxes, and you did nothing to incur a higher tax fee this year, chances are you are not withholding the proper amount through your employer. This is an easy fix. The IRS has a calculator that can figure out what your tax liability is for the current year, and how much you will either be over or under by the end of the year based on how much is currently being withheld from your paycheck. You can set it up so more is withdrawn now so that when tax time comes along, you get money back. Tax is not a surprise, or it shouldn’t be to anyone who pays attention (as all citizens should). It’s not the government’s fault that the citizens choose of their own free will not to be more informed. The information is in plain sight. And it is quite clear.

Finally, why are you so gullible, Arlene? I mean really, com’on.

Exactly, TT. I hate it when society is friendly to families. Hate it.

Annegb, I generally enjoy the sincerity and candor of your posts and comments, but this one left me wanting. You need to follow up with why your anger at the child tax credit is making you turn to . . . Fox News, that supporter of hyuge, Republican-led government. It doesn’t follow. Does Fox just represent the face of opposition to you? I just don’t get it.

No, Daniel, I’m objecting to them getting back $9000 MORE THAN THEY PAID!!! Just for having kids. Hell, I might as well have paid my taxes to them. The dad only worked part of the year, at that. Bill and I worked all year, paid a hell of a lot more than they did and we are still paying. I’m objecting to paying for them to sit on their butts, have kids and get money from the government. And a hell of a lot of money, too.

What that family did last year is be lazy and irresponsible, pay little taxes (and yes, I know them well enough to know how much they paid) and milk the system. Which our government set up.

Daniel, I want you to go to your mirror and slap yourself up the side of the head for me. In fact, just go to hell. I’m not gullible. Something’s rotten in Denmark and we are no longer friends.

You others are right, I suppose, as far as this being a goverment thing and not a party thing. Maybe this is something that’s gone on a long time and I just woke up to it. But it’s wrong. I wouldn’t object if they got back every penny they paid while working, but hell, who makes that much in a savings account these days? Our government is whacked.

Hunter and TT, you can go to hell, too. There are more families in America facing my and Bill’s dilemma (and we’re way below $100,00 in our income, believe me). So, do you only care about families who contribute nothing and get buckets back? Because, we, the lower middle class, are being totally screwed. We pay taxes every year, that’s nothing new. We prepare for it. It’s the thought of Joe Welfare out there paying jack and going to Disneyland on the government. Just…just…bad word you.

April, actually, that’s what I do. Because nobody, I mean nobody’s unbiased.

Sure do love ya annegb.

TT, she said she is mad at the *government* for a system that seems unfair to her and rewards bad behavior at the expense of those with good behavior. And you respond with points about Bush? Methinks you are missing her point with your insistence on making it about Bush vs. Obama.

Wow, annegb. I ask a simple question about a non sequitur and you banish me to hell? This *is* the Bloggernacle, though — in the spirit of Jason Wharton, you should have just dusted your feet at me!

I guess you’re just underscoring for all us readers that the main point of your post really was just to express your angry feelings. All the rest is just irrational nonsense. So, thanks for setting that out for everyone, and not making the rest of us do the work for you.

Note to commenters: Annegb is mad. She’s just mad. Let her vent. She’ll feel better soon.

There. Now, it’s off to hell for me . . .

Also try to remember that these are the same tax laws that:
1. Will help a single mom who divorced her lazy husband and since he doesn’t work he doesn’t pay her child support and she is working but not making enough to make it. Doesn’t she deserve the child tax credit and earned income credit?
2. Help a young couple buy a house by being able to deduct the interest bringing their tax liability down. Remember, older couples whose houses are close to being paid off aren’t able to deduct large amounts of interest anymore so their tax liability slowly goes up as the interest paid goes down each year.
I’m guessing someday I’ll be paying more in taxes because my house will be paid off and my kids will all be grown up. Until then, we work hard and we try to make ends meet and I do not think it is unfair that our society tries to ease the burden of young families just a little. If we aren’t careful, our birthrate will plummet to zero. People already think having children is too expensive and too much trouble.

Hunter…I’m sorry :). But basically, you’re right. I’m venting.

annegb–I’m sorry you’re bummed about your taxes and this unnamed persons’ taxes. Sometimes it is just better to know less about people’s ins and outs. I promise you this: Fox News is not the answer!

MarkB,

i seriously lub that comment. and this: http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/264042/february-08-2010/sarah-palin-uses-a-hand-o-prompter

Arlene,

Let me put it to you as clear as I can.

Fox News will exploit you. Fox News does not care about you. Fox News could hardly give a damn that you got jilted in your taxes this year. You are a pawn to them. They make you into a powerless angry white woman. That’s all they’ve got for you. Is that really the future you wish to have? Because let me tell you, I’d prefer hell.

If I wanna be pissed about taxes I’ll just look at most of our elected officials and get bummed. Seems like only the little guys are called on tax fraud charges anymore… the big guys get pointed at, chewed out and then let off the hook :P

this should piss you off, Arlene.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/02/10/right-rebels-foxnews/

Yes, a Saudi prince owns the largest shares of Fox News outside of Rupert Murdoch (who isn’t even a freaking American! He’s from Down Under). Your true passion for America is being exploited by foreign hands wishing for your money, Arlene. Surely this pisses you off.

TT #10: I believe this is what you’re referring to:

What’s New Making work pay credit. If you have earned income from work, you may be able
to take this credit. It is 6.2% of your earned income but cannot be more than $400 ($800 if married filing jointly).
That doesn’t save me a penny.

There were three child credits—benefits–whatever, which I think are probably responsible for the huge tax refunds people with children are receiving. This is in addition to the exemption amount of $3650 per person if you itemize or whatever it is if you don’t.

The first is on line 51, the child tax credit.
Then there’s the earned income credit.
And, on line 65, additional child tax credit

With this, Matt, you might get back more than you owe. The worksheets are on the IRS website.

But, this is not robbing the rich to give to the poor. It’s robbing the “not quite as poor” to give to the poor.

Like I said, I was glad to get that $100 the year I received it. I don’t think that equals to percentage of getting what amounts to half your income in a bonus from the government.

Daniel, what the hell does “your true passion for America” mean? I have no idea what you’re talking about there.

My eyes glaze over at the mere mention of tax worksheets, income percentages, tax credits and the like. Being the one who does the dirty jobs in our household, I do our taxes, and I hate them. Not with a passion, but I hate them anyway, and I think it’s unconscionable what the government puts us through to pay income taxes, which are unconstitutional. I think it’s also unconscionable the way they squeeze money out of every single person, from the upper class to the working poor. I decided long ago that I had two choices. I could jump through their hoops and give them the huge chunk of our income that they say we owe them to keep them from harassing us, or I could allow myself to get angry and refuse to pay taxes in protest and let them harass us, bring charges against us, garner our property and accounts, and put us in debtors prison. So I go along and get along and torture myself with record-keeping to keep the relative peace, but when I see someone else venting their anger at the convoluted lunacy and downright robbery of our tax system, no matter how thoughtful (or thoughtless) their arguments, they have my full sympathy. I would never ever demean them with a political argument. And they can react in whatever way they choose and watch any television news show they wish.

I tend to stay away from cable news channels — very boring, since they cover the same three stories hour-after-hour. I can get my news from the ‘net a lot faster, thankyouverymuch.

However, all’s y’all who want to tell annegb not to watch Fox News because *you* don’t like it should just be satisfied that you don’t consume. How presumptuous can you be? As if annegb can’t discern for herself what is worthy of her time and attention, and only if she were blessed with your superior intellect and knowledge, she’d banish FNC like you, the enlightened.

Maybe you should stop and consider how one might find your presumptions insulting.

Thanks for the support, Jana. I think I should have put a different title. Because I don’t watch Fox that much now, even in the midst of my tax revolt :).

Ok, I’ll admit it. I get most of my news from the Drudge Report. But if I read anything particularly scathing about the president, I check elsewhere to get balance. If CNN reports it the same way, I know there’s a problem. Vice versa with Fox and the Republicans.

Sam, I can’t be too much more specific without risking a lawsuit :). But I’m thinking, 4 kids, low income, 3 possible tax credits—it could be true. It probably includes a state refund as well. Heck maybe cash for clunkers.

I’m not as ticked off as I was. More than most of my circle of friends, I believe in some kind of charitable gavernment programs. But, because my mom lived on welfare and because I’ve seen a lot of thes programs enable rather than empower—and now, because it’s hitting me in dollars and cents, I’m conflicted and resentful.

Tough situation.

Daniel,

I’ve always viewed it as counter productive to brandish the conspiracy theories embraced by one organization (such as The Center for American Progress)as a weapon against another organization for embracing conspiracy theories.

I apologize if I’m mistaken, but it appears that you may have skewed some previously skewed statements in post 27. Fox News is owned by Fox Entertainment Group, which is owned by News Corporation. News Corp is a publicly traded company meaning that anyone, anywhere can purchase shares in it. The “Saudi prince” you refer to is indeed the second largest shareholder (with approx 7%)in NewsCorp. But that doesn’t mean that his NewCorp shares do in fact make him the “second largest shareholder in Fox News”.

If you have evidence to prove your claim, I’m also interested in knowing whether the prince’s shares are actual “voting shares” or simply publicly traded non-voting shares.

I found the list of assets owned by the prince’s holding company-Kingdom Holding Company-fascinating. It is just one of a dozen conglomerate holding companies controlled by “foreign hands” that all of us, including yourself, happily support every day.

Sam,

The money Anne pays for her cable/satellite subscription goes to the multiple companies involved whether we watch their channels or not. By simply having such a service in our homes we benefit the shareholders in hundreds of companies and they could be anyone from nuns to arms dealers.

Consumers personally put money in RM’s pockets in far greater amounts by attending and purchasing the movies owned/produced/and distributed by 20th Century Fox. Since they either produced or co-produced many of the industries highest grossing movies (Star Wars,Titanic and Avatar among them)Anne’s satellite payments are a mere pittance. (to RM. Anne might feel differently about her bills)

I’m back with Fox these days. Here’s why: someone known to me, who’s married, but didn’t work last year is getting back $10,000 in taxes!!!! While Bill and I are going to have to pay about $2000. Oh, wait, did I say getting BACK? That’s not quite correct. They’re not getting back anything. They’re getting a huge BONUS from the government for having kids and not working!!! Their spouse worked and payed some taxes, but nowhere near $10,000.

Here’s my take: Unless they’ve actually shown you the paperwork on their taxes, it’s automatically suspect. The same goes for people bragging about salaries, bonuses, etc.

(I had someone once tell me that you don’t ever compare salary information with someone else unless you’re going to exchange paystubs for comparison. It’s too easy to bluff through the gray areas of “how much does someone make”.)

Sam B.

The 2009 “Economic Stimulus Plan” expanded two of the cash credits given to families with dependent children:the Earned income credit increased by 5% for those having 3+ children, and the qualifying income threshold dropped on the Child Tax Credit. They apply to both the 2009 and the 2010 Income Tax periods.

If this couple were “First Time Home Buyers” in 2009, they qualified for an $8000.00 credit. This credit will be given to the couple as part of their income tax return and does not have to be repaid, whereas in 2008, the $7500 FTHB credit had to be repaid and could be “subtracted” completely or partially from their income tax refund.

And one more-for the tax year 2009, those getting unemployment benefits do not have to pay federal income tax on the first $2400.00 they get.

It could be any combination of those things that resulted in her neighbors refund.For the record, my spouse works with two men whose wives had babies last year, whose income did not decrease, and who are not FTHB’s whose average income tax refund of about $3000.00 increased to around $10,000 this year. Their gross incomes (before deductions) are somewhere in the $60K range, and they are both honest, intelligent, average people who volunteered their refund information.

But,everyone needs to be aware of certain, specific FACTS here:

The Economic Stimulus Act of 2008-the one signed by President Bush paid out tax “rebate” checks to tax payers that were received DURING 2008 and only affected income tax filings/refunds for the year 2008. The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, also signed by Bush, was the “bailout” and TARP fiasco. Neither one of these plans have any affect US 2009 income tax filings/refunds.

The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA)-is the product of the 111th U.S.Congress (which did not begin until the last two weeks of Bush’s administration)and was signed in February 2009 by President Obama. Only three Republican Senators voted for the bill, all House Republicans voted against.

ALL of the increases we are seeing in income tax refunds for 2009 (and will see again in 2010) are a direct result and product of the 111th US Congress (which is overwhelmingly Democrat). President Bush had absolutely nothing to do with the ARRA.

mina,
Given the difficulty recently of getting a mortgage, I doubt anne’s friends were getting the first time homebuyers credit. (If they were, that explains nearly all of their refund.) And, of course, you’re right that Congress under the Obama administration has affected taxes and rates; changes happen more than annually these days (and maybe they always did).

That said, a 5% increase and reduction of income threshold? It makes a difference, but not a huge one. I stand by my point: the credits that likely produced the refund (at least, by inference from what anne said) likely result largely from the EITC, initiated under a Republican administration, and not revoked by any subsequent Republican or Democratic Congress, and the child tax credit, passed under a Democratic administration, and not revoked either by a Democratic or Republican Congress.

Queuno, you could be right. But in the break room, a lot of the younger kids (I’m an older kid, :) are telling the same story. You have to admit the Democrats are more liberal that way. Which, to totally contradict myself,I’m kind of down with. Within reason. We need to help each other.

I’m being judgemental about this specific family. God will get me for it.

Sigh…I’m glad for you, really. I remember how poor we were.

I don’t think I handled this post well and lost my dignity as usual, to my chagrin. But I’m grateful to those who shared and for what I’ve learned. I’m at peace with it now.

annegb, I’m sorry to hear about your tax problems. I despise taxes more than I can say in polite company.

I watch Fox News also, because it’s the only real news on television. The networks are a bad parody of Dan Rather, who (bad as he was) was still the cream of the Network crop. CNN is just silly, and MSNBC is a parody of a network and much of its programming could pass straight into an SNL skit unchanged, where folks who actually have talent could read it.

But, is that a credit toward the total tax or off the taxable income?

“Credits” are always a reduction of the total tax owed. “Deductions” and “Exemptions” reduce taxable income.

Personally, I think tax credits, especially refundable tax credits, are an underhanded way for the government to implement social policy. They should just write welfare checks to the desired beneficiaries instead. At least that way the expenditures would show up in the budget.

Many of the most popular deductions, notably the mortgage interest deduction, and the health care deduction for employers (only) are nearly as bad, if not worse due to the massive economic dislocations they cause (like the housing bubble, and over-inflated health care prices). I have an idea, why don’t we just make all expenditures tax free? That would level the playing field between renters and purchasers of starter mansions, would it not?

Mommie Dearest, you don’t sound like a nutjob. You sound stressed like a lot of us.

I’m sorry I was mean to you, Daniel. I don’t agree with you, but I’m sorry I told you to go to hell. Group hug.

Good point, Rick. In retrospect, I find myself incredibly judgemental and tedious. Probably most of the families who receive these windfalls desperately need them and deserve them.