“That Young Men, their leaders, and their parents might come to value that program more than the Scout program which, let’s face it, isn’t a Church program.”

This is only half-true. The Church does not run BSA or maintain scouting programs in every country, but where it does support scouting, the Church is a chartering organization that provides leadership and members to scout troops. Insofar as the Church has adopted Scouting as a way to help YM grow, Scouting is a Church program. This really isn’t just a matter of semantics. Even if YM aren’t advancing in Scouting ranks, they’re participating in Scouting if they’re participating in the non-Sunday Church activities.

The patches and awards are the least valuable part of the Scouting program, but there is some value with recognition of achievement. As long as the focus of Personal Progress does not become recognition or awards, I don’t mind that they add stickers, medallions, or whatever. Some girls will care about the stuff and it may motivate them to do good.

The only frame of reference I have with this, ESO, is when I was 9 and went to church, entirely on my own. I had a nice Primary teacher and a “bandelo.” This was important and fun to me. Sarah got her young womanhood award mostly by doing stuff she’d have done anyway. And she was proud of it.

James’ circle of friends were pretty big scouters and it was fun to them; Jared, not so much.

It does seem like busy work in a way (anybody remember the goal booklets we got in Relief Society?). What I’d recommend is cheering on the girls for whom this is fun and cautioning the parents and peers not to place a person’s value on it. To relax and allow their child to just be, if that’s their goal.

My middle husband, the bum, was an Eagle Scout, RM, and hd didn’t have half the character of my other husbands. Arthur Bishop, who was put to death for the molestation and murder of can’t remember how many little boys in the 80′s was an RM and Eagle Scout. It works the same for the girls.

You’re in a tough position, but also in one where you can make the important point that the kids need to be judged on “the content of their character, not the volume of their badges” to paraphrase Martin Luther King.

Interesting thoughts. In my stake, just under 1/3 of girls finish all of Personal Progress. Most seem to find it a huge bother. There has definitely been renewed interest when they see the ribbons.

And really, the only new bits and baubles are the ribbons, the optional bookmark that goes with the ribbons. The rest of the stuff has just been redesigned. Oh, and every new YW is supposed to receive a gold torch logo necklace. The old colorful one seemed to be considered, well, old.

I’m hoping maybe we can get 1/2 the girls to try. And if takes ribbons, I’m okay with that.

And how do you get to that site from lds.org? I’ve tried and can’t navigate there. I really want it to be legit, because that idea is a huge step forward.

Bookslinger,
I strongly disagree that one doesn’t progress if she doesn’t set goals and measure outcomes. It seems like significant advances and progress can occur because somebody is noodling, with no set course in front of them. Or rather, checklists and written goals may help a person progress on a path that has been laid out in front of her (although I’m not convinced), but following the checklist is almost certain to stifle innovation.

I think if you’re in a personal progress funk, you should just start working on something from it. Look over it, find one you like/don’t hate, maybe even pray about, maybe even pray to have a stronger testimony of it. PP is a great opportunity for moms and daughters to work together and become closer-something extremely important, especially in those teenage years. Right now I have lots of sisters eager to mentor a yw through personal progress, it’s really impressed me. I think that will go a long way to integrating the yw into RS when the time comes.

Off topic, but along the lines of putting church “work” (not right word) online…

The other day I thought, wouldn’t it be great if there was this web-based journal platform where you could type your entries from any networked computer in the world and have it available wherever you go? (never to get lost, stolen, ruined, etc)

Then I realized we have those things called blogs… then I got uncomfortable about putting a journal online because it changes how I would write. I’d feel I’d have to defend or qualify things more and would have more of a vested interest in protecting my writing, rather than just writing my thoughts. Then I realized my writing will still be judged that way by decendants, without my chance at elaborating, because I can never say it all in a complete way that reflects the entire truth. So I gave up.

ESO (6)

If done properly, even combined activities are “scouting” events.

In 2013, the Church will celebrate its 100-year partnership with the Boy Scouts of America. The Church is the oldest chartering organization of the BSA and the largest single sponsor of scouting units.

From the beginning the scouting movement has been a religious movement (there are statements to this effect from Lord Baden-Powell). The purpose of scouting is not 1) having boys earn their Eagle, 2) learning to tie knots, or even 3) getting to go unshowered for a week at camp… The purpose of scouting, according to to the BSA is to prepare young men (and young women who are 14-20 and participate in the Venturing program) “to make moral and ethical decisions throughout their lives.” The methods that the BSA uses to achieve this goal vary depending on which scouting program you’re talking about (Scout Troop, Varsity Team, or Venturing Crew) in order to fit the age-specific needs of the boys (and girls) who participate in each program.

While there are many shortcomings with the way scouting is run in the Church – the first among them being an overemphasis on advancement (you must earn your Eagle at all costs…) and the second being uncommitted, untrained and untenured adults. But when executed properly, scouting is the leadership laboratory for the Aaronic Priesthood. It is in scouting that the young men learn to implement the principles learned on Sunday and it is in scouting that they get the foundation to teach them how to lead the Church.

One of the methods of Boy Scouting is the “outdoors.” The idea is to get young men out of their comfort zone and into the wilderness. This is often where a clearing to the young man’s soul is opened and where an in-tune leader can help him commune with the spirit. Look through the scriptures, it is full of deeply formative spiritual experiences that happen in the outdoors (in the “wilderness”, on a “mountaintop”, in the “desert”, in a “forest”, in a “quiet grove of trees.”).

Duty to God is a recognition program, not an activity program. Most of the DTG requirements are done by the boy alone or with his family. It is intended to bring a boy closer to his family. While some DTG requirements will be fulfilled in the course of scouting activities, DTG is not intended to replace scouting where scouting is used by the Church.

“and it is in scouting that they get the foundation to teach them how to lead the Church. ” I’ll leave the part out about the Lord leading the church, etc. because I know that’s not what you meant and I don’t want to read too much into what you say.

And I’m as pro scouting at the next guy but I cringed at that statement. I really hope that the Lord does not rely on BSA to teach young priesthood holders how to lead the church. Especially considering… well, you know most Aaronic Priesthood holders are not involved in the Boy Scouts of America. I can just see Pres. Uchtdorf now… wondering how he’ll ever get to be an effective church leader without having the blessing of the BSA. /end snark

Let’s just leave it at scouts is one way to help kids become leaders and develop themselves. But I’m pretty sure being part of an effective priesthood quorum is the best way to prepare to be a leader in a priesthood quorum.

I was bored out of my mind with scouting in my youth, and dropped out of it in middle school. If our YM activities had just been thinly-veiled scouting activities, I probably wouldn’t have attended them, either. For boys who (like me) have no interest in the whole scouting rigamarole, how does that affect Church activity now that YM activities ARE scouting activities?

I’m not disagreeing on that, but now you’re into “nice to do” territory, not “this is what the church says you should do with YM territory.”

Most of the membership is outside of the US. I’m assuming that means most of the youth is outside of the US. And if that’s not the case, it will be soon enough. Most countries don’t have scouting. If it’s part of the foundation of church leadership, Pres. Uchtdorf as well as many general authorities are lacking a firm foundation?

Scouting is very good and I’ll have my kids take part in it for certain. But it is not serving a large percentage of our young priesthood and telling their leaders, “well if you want to do it, you can petition to organize one or do it on your own” is not really a good answer when most local leaders in international wards probably haven’t even heard of scouting. Or if they have only through cultural references and would know little about it.

ESO (20)

Point taken with respect to DTG and PP.

You asked – “Are you suggesting that YM are not equally as capable and need a handbook of activities to keep them occupied with worthy pursuits? I don’t believe that.”

I am absolutely not saying that. In a well-run scouting program the boys do ALL the work and make ALL the decisions about their activities. There are more helps and guidelines with respect to the activities for the deacon-age YM leaders (in the Troop) than there are for the teacher-age YM leaders (in the Team) than there are for the priest-age YM leaders (in the Crew). And there is a progressive level of responsibility and leadership undertaken at each level.

Chris (15) – I appreciate you not taking umbridge with my use of the phrase “lead the Church” since you recognize that I was in no way saying that Christ isn’t the “head” of the Church. But I might disagree with you a bit. A steward may not be THE leader, but he is still A leader. I consider President Monson, or my Bishop, or my EQ president, or my RS president, a “leader” in the church and it is perfectly appropriate to say that a “leader” in the church leads the unit over which he/she has stewardship. There’s nothing wrong with the statement “President Monson leads the church in accordance with the direction received from Christ through the spirit.” Christ is the “head” of the church, but he doesn’t always “lead” it. I’ve never seen Jesus lead a sacrament meeting, lead a service project, or lead a YM basketball team to victory. It all depends on how you want to use the term. I know, now I’m the one being snarky, but you did kind of start it.

You also said, “But I’m pretty sure being part of an effective priesthood quorum is the best way to prepare to be a leader in a priesthood quorum.”

I think it is important to distinguish between how scouting is often used in the Church and how scouting is supposed to be used in the Church. Used properly, scouting should be more effective at leadership training than simply being part of a priesthood quorum simply for the fact that scouting gives more opportunity to more boys to lead in more circumstances than the priesthood quorum.

Chris- blogs can be private…at blogspot.com you can change your settings to private so no one can see your blog but you. I have a ton of blogs to help me stay organized…some for home decorating pictures, recipes, etc. Its great and you don’t use up your hard drive space! :)

I have always thought that Scouts is a distraction from the gospel. The YW activities and classes are so focused on the gospel, homemaking, mothering, etc…and the boys play dodge ball or do scout stuff. I wish they’d get a divorce already…our youth are too busy as it is. (and I am a cub scout den leader mom)

I was also *this* close to getting my PP done. Only one project left, but then I graduated high school and got a social life instead. :P But honestly, the jewelry wasn’t that big of an incentive to stick with it. They are pretty ugly. I think its neat they are putting it online. I HATE the stupid pink pages though.

BTW, scouting is also online now.

“When achievement is measured, progress accelerates. When the measurements are reported, progress accelerates even more.”

That’s a Monson quote, by the way.

What’s with the bots, is the spam filter being left unattended at MM?

HAaha – ya jjohnsen! We are people – if you prick us do we not bleed? If you give us books, do we not read? When making bread, do we not knead? That’s from the bible dude!

““When achievement is measured, progress accelerates. When the measurements are reported, progress accelerates even more.”
That’s a Monson quote, by the way.”
This comment is made by queuno. I like it. Really true and inspiring.