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| Tuesday, June 18, 2013 |
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It’s hard to say. Our ward goes out of its way to keep the fathers away from the Young Women’s program, so I don’t have any idea what they do, even on a Wednesday night. That hasn’t stopped me from creating my own YWPP tracker for my daughter. But at a ward-level, XY parents are personae non grata. I do know our stake recognizes DTG recipients at stake priesthood meetings. |
Queuno–keeping parents away from PP sounds so crazy. It is the exact opposite of everything I have ever heard from YW leaders–we would do anything for parents interested in helping their YW through the program. Sorry. I have high hopes for the on-line version of PP: http://www.lds.org/pa/yw/pp/cs/index.html |
I see what you mean. That’s totally unfair. The young men should be awarded with cheap jewelry too. |
Have you seen the quality of the average Cub Scout badge? Cheap jewelry. |
Truthfully, I’m a still a little confused. Are you saying that the YW who do an extra fantastic job on personal progress should also be “recognized with the Priesthood”? I’m not sure what that means. Last I recall, Personal Progress awards are also recognized at ward meetings. Unless you are saying that young men are actually given the priesthood after receiving their Duty to God. But that would be odd because: 1) the Duty to God award is not (as far as I know) a prerequisite to being ordained; and 2) giving the young women the priesthood would be quite a radical policy change just to ensure that the two programs are handled similarly. |
#3–no one wants the jewelry, do they? #5–You are correct that completion, or even participation, of DtG has not effect whatsoever on a Young Man getting or advancing in his Priesthood. I am not suggesting that they be linked. IMO, reward for participation in ether DtG or PP should be your own personal growth. Instead, the FAQs for the respective programs suggest that YM will be recognized when they advance in the Priesthood and YW who participate in their program will be placated with crap. That’s ridiculous. Remove the stuff, and de-link Priesthood advancement from this program and just support the youth in the good work they do. |
At our local Cub Scout roundtable, the leaders receive a bead to hook on the uniforms for each time they attend. We had a tradition of standing together as the beads were awarded, and chanting, ” A bead, a bead, I did it for a bead!” Perhaps the YW could come up with a similar chant. |
keeping parents away from PP sounds so crazy. It is the exact opposite of everything I have ever heard from YW leaders–we would do anything for parents interested in helping their YW through the program. Sorry. All I can say is, we had to go get our own YW materials last year (although they just gave us the new ones). There was no introduction to the program, no discussion about how it works, etc. (We did figure it out on our own, though.) There is never any communication via email about activities to either parent; the only time parents get any announcement is if the YW presidency mentions it in Relief Society, which only helps if you’re physically in RS. There’s definitely a huge disinterest on the part of the YW leaders related to the fathers. I’d just be happy if Wednesday nights had some relevance to the YW PP program, and if we’d know about it more than 30 min. before when a girl calls our house to remind us to come to YW, but doesn’t know what they’re doing. So we’re muddling along, but it’s definitely going to be an independent study program… :) (As recently as 2-3 years ago, I thought we had an amazing YW program. Ebb and flow.) |
”A bead, a bead, I did it for a bead!”
Nevermind. |
Paula–Awesome. Queuno–I’m crossing my fingers for some new leadership in your ward soon. |
I don’t think that they are being recognized with the priesthood, but I read that as the bishop will recognize their Duty to God Award *when* they are presented for advancement in the priesthood. |
Because the inherent virtue of a young woman which is intended to be developed by Personal Progress counts for absolutely nothing. Gotcha. |
I don’t think these awards mean all that much in the long run, to tell the truth. I think they’re basically busy work that don’t bring boys or girls closer to the Savior and don’t have that much to do with the way they live their lives as grown ups. Basically, uh, to be redundant, I think they’re basically worthless. Even if the jewelry was made out of gold and diamonds. |
The DTG program is always going to be half-baked as long as we are trying to run scouting alongside it. No one wants to spend the time and effort to run both programs and give them equal weight, so you either have a great scouting program with no DTG emphasis or the opposite. Usually scouting wins because it’s so entrenched. I have no idea what to do to make the YW program work, but it’s odd that the YW have two programs while the YW only have one. Lets finally get rid of scouting and design the YW and YM programs to be equal with similar goals and non-sappy materials. That will be a huge improvement. |
MCQ, by experience has been that wards that have a good scouting program generally have a good DTG track record and conversely, those that struggle with scouting also have issues with DTG. Granted, your mileage may vary, but after almost 5 years as Stake YM president that’s generally what I obvserved in my stake and our next door stake. |
The cheap jewelry is an “objective correlative”, a memento, a physical reminder, a keepsake. I’ve always been under the impression that women (and young women) are more keen on those kinds of things than are men and young men. An objective correlative is not a bad thing, no matter how cheap or expensive. I know several people who keep such a thing in their pocket, wallet, purse, or keep-sake bracelet. It’s like tieing a string on your finger, or a rubber band on your wrist to remind you of something. It’s a symbol. Perhaps somewhat, in a very small degree, like the Savior kept the wounds in his hands, feet and side after His resurrection. Does He “need” to have those? Why did He keep them? For His benefit, or ours? In my understanding, the gospel is pretty big on symbolism (baptism, sacrament, temple symbols and signs, etc.) In fact, many organizations use such symbols, and use them in association with advancement, learning, accomplishments, etc. Both Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts use badges, pins, and so on. Bottom line: if you believe in symbolism (or symbology?), then the jewelry is not a bad thing. |
The DTG program is always going to be half-baked as long as we are trying to run scouting alongside it. No one wants to spend the time and effort to run both programs and give them equal weight, so you either have a great scouting program with no DTG emphasis or the opposite. Usually scouting wins because it’s so entrenched. I’d really like bbell’s opinion on this, since he works closer to the YM, but I see *much* more attention paid to DTG after age 14 than Scouting. And speaking as a youth who was done with his Eagle by age 14, it would have been nice to have had something of a functional program. I think DTG does that. At any rate, I think it’s working pretty well in most places. There are lots of leaders who’ve basically overlaid the two programs and said, “look, this isn’t that hard.” |
I have a real-life daughter who is in YW, and here’s her take on the new YW swag: - “I don’t like how they’re giving us material items to accomplish things. It’s just kind of fake. Girls should do this because they need to do this.” (direct quote, no paraphrasing) - Her personal opinion aside (where she doesn’t want anything), she thinks that most girls her age don’t like the bookmarks. She thinks that they’re kind of cheap, given the amount of work for each value. (I had to paraphrase this.) She offered a couple of alternate options: (a) Have YW class-specific advancement, like the DTG (I’m paraphrasing) does. Individual levels for Beehive, Mia Maid, and Laurel. (My thought: Isn’t this supposed to be the improvement of the DTG over Scouting?) Her final thought (because she’s not into giving bribes): “I’d prefer a celebration, not a prize or a bribe.” |
ESO - I solicited more unvarnished opinion from my (almost) 13 year old. I’m cutting-and-pasting from the IM she sent me. I’m offering no other opinions on this, and any “misconceptions” she might have are obviously things I need to work to correct. 1- Outcasts tend to be treated as they always are. In projects, they don’t have an opinion and they aren’t given a specific reason WHY their idea works … or doesn’t work. 2- If we love camp so much, why don’t they put athletic requirements in the Personal Progress Journal? 3- Creativity and flexibility is another thing that Leaders sometimes lack. If they don’t have something big planned for Mutual, we usually do arts and crafts or babysitting. Within 6 months, I have probably had about 7 involving babysitting or how to babysit. 4- Laurels do EVERYTHING. They lead opening exercises and say announcements. Beehives can read words off a page! 5- Why is it called Mutual? That’s mainly to be used as an adjective, not a noun. And Mutual Improvement Association? What happened to the “daughters of our Heavenly Father” theme? MIA sounds like something a company does to save more money. 6- I really, really don’t like the bribery. I’m not saying that’s all it’s about, but the girls always talk about how cool it is. Aren’t we supposed to not become obsessed with material things? I’d feel better with like a party-type-thing with your age group once you finish. Go out to eat with cake and stuff. It is a celebration and we need to stress that more. When I win a soccer tournament, I think about how all that hard work paid off rather than the shiny trophy. Sure, bring in your bookmarks, but I feel like I’m getting gypped. 7- We were separated into genders for a reason, but guys aren’t the only ones who need table manners. And haven’t you noticed that the a lot of the time when it is combined with the YM, we are doing sporty things! Sister Elaine S. Dalton and people who write the book need to take a survey of the Young Women population (maybe even past young women) that actually KNOW how to cook, sew, clean, budget, repair a sink, and other essentials for a home. If the percentage of the survey is low, then maybe we should express it more. I think it should be way more modernized. What if your husband works a lot and he doesn’t have time for taxes? Add budgeting classes in there. See, a lot of my friends know how to sew, but I school them in math. And actually, my sewing is only so-so. 8- Again with being modern: there’s a really cool invention called E-MAIL! My ward’s Young Women leaders collect phone numbers for contacting us about special activities. Phones are useful, but if you miss a call, then you miss it all. Now, I respect that some people don’t have a computer, but what if you don’t have a phone? Can’t we provide both? I feel very uninformed about things and Knowledge is an important value. 9- Those Beatles are some smart dudes. Being an outcast to these girls, I am called an “alien” and really, all I need is love. Love is the softening cartilage of the structured bones of the program. I guess that’s my problem to deal with, but it’s a negative on Young Women’s. |
I feel like I’m getting gypped. Roma? |
queuno–your daughter sounds a lot like me–duty-driven and turned off by bribes. I am sorry she feels like an outcast, though; I hope that changes for her, either by changing the population (older girls leaving and newer, nicer, younger ones incoming) or a change in outlook for her. Being 13 sucks. Thanks for sharing her thoughts. |
I’m confused. Why delink the priesthood? It does help them to be better priesthood holders. I was totally with you on one thing though. YM get to advance in a variety of ways, they move up the latter with age, like YW do, but the YM also get to move up in the priesthood hierarchy, which means taking on additional priesthood duties in the church. I guess an appropriate counterpart could be for the RS to have more to do with the YM? It probably is more of a shock for a YW to all of the sudden go to RS than it is for a YM go to Elders Quorum. Maybe closer operation and advancement with service opportunities and responsibilities between YW and RS could help? |
When a young man earns his eagle we throw a huge court of honor. It’s mentioned in the local papers. EVERYONE is invited to come celebrate and eat cake. Why not do something similar for the young women who complete their program too? Also, the scouting program is supported by the troop committee. But why not ask the troop committee to support the Young Womens’ Program too? |
chris–I have known of wards where YW were asked to participate in a light visiting teaching program as Laurels. Ron–I admit that I don’t really know what a troop committee is, but my guess is that it supports troop-related activities; as PP has nothing to do with a troop, why would we want their involvement? |
While I agree that having a memento as a symbol of your accomplishment can be very nice, I propose that a CHEAP memento of your accomplishment serves to devalue that experience. And I say this as someone who got a lovely small polished pebble when I “graduated” from a series of group meditation classes. That rock meant a lot to me. |
My problem with this is that a girl should be praying every day to become closer to the Lord not to get a brownie point. Why can’t we just teach our children to follow the Savior? Queen Esther didn’t get her YW award. Know what I mean? |
me still confused. Are you saying that the YW who did a fantastic job in addition to the personal progress must also be “recognized by the Priesthood”? last I remember, Personal Progress awards also recognized at the meeting environment. Unless you say that in fact young men are given the priesthood after receiving their duty to God. But it would be odd because: 1.Tugas for the award is a prerequisite for God is not ordained, and 2. give young women the priesthood would be a radical policy change is only to ensure that the two programs are handled the same. |
Then there’s the Faith in God program in primary. No rewards. No trinkets. Nothing. The FAQ section on the website says that they should do it for the internal value of accomplishing something. Usually the trinkets and rewards are where people start and then move away from as people gain an understanding of the intrinsic value. |
#27–I am only pointing out the disparity between the focus of the respective programs #28–good point! |
I have one kid left in the youth programs. He has one more year to go and then I will have multiple things to celebrate: 1. Last kid to graduate from public school. I get my life back and can take long weekends whenever I please without having to worry about someone missing school. 2. Last kid to graduate from Seminary. See above, along with not getting up at the crack of dawn to drag a miserable child to church. Poor thing. 3. Last kid to legally be my problem. Once he turns 18, I won’t have to worry about what I will say to the news cameras when my kid does something stupid and everyone thinks, “What kind of mother does he have?” 4. Done with Boy Scouts, YW and all the utter nonsense that has absolutely nothing to do with the gospel. Yahoo!!!!! PS You are all officially invited to my graduation party, this time next year. 22 years of all the things mentioned above and we will finally be done. If I wasn’t an excellent Mormon, I would have a keg party. |
[...] Paula, commenting on ESO’s post “Duty to God. vs. Personal Progress” at Mormon Mentality: At our local Cub Scout roundtable, the leaders receive a bead to hook on the uniforms for each time they attend. We had a tradition of standing together as the beads were awarded, and chanting, ” A bead, a bead, I did it for a bead!” Perhaps the YW could come up with a similar chant. [...] |
