What Julie said.

:)

CPS has been involved as well as ward people/PH leadership for about 8 years now. I was using this situation as an example and wondering when do you call CPS? The call and subsequent involvement with CPS is a double edged sword as we all know.

I think that clueless, mentally ill, and just plain neglectful best describe the parents

The Mandated Reports list varies from state to state (http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/manda.cfm) but by some interpretations, primary teachers or those who work with youth could be construed as such. It gets really messy and uncomfortable to open the CPS door on families, so we loathe to do it, but it can be helpful to the children.

Here are some signs of abuse
http://www.childwelfare.gov/pubs/factsheets/signs.cfm

If a family truly has had an innocent slip-up or freak occurrence, I hope CPS can recognize that and clear the family. If the CPS is receiving reports from various sources about a particular family, I hope they can work with that family.

Quite honestly, and to the horror of the other commenters here, I think I would give the people the benefit of the doubt. In the first situation, I don’t think that’s bad. Babies have a different kind of fat and if they don’t feel cold then they don’t feel cold. I see nothing wrong with letting a kid run around in a diaper. If you really felt concerned, you could have offered the kid a coat or something, but informing the father you wouldn’t help if he didn’t get inside and get dressed seems a little extreme, bossy, and intrusive. In the second situation, I’m not sure what exactly happened, but if another mom was nearby watching kids in a pool, I would be fine with leaving for a moment to get some other kids into the car.

I think parents shouldn’t be expected to spend every waking moment playing with their children. It’s just not possible to do that and stay sane. And when you have several children, lots of accidents are bound to happen. So when I read that you weren’t surprised and that you consider their parenting to be “really dangerous,” I was surprised myself. But then again, I’m not a mother. Yet.

Michelle – I would agree that it’s *OK* if the mother had asked someone else to watch her child. But in this case, if the mother had simply left the child and went to load her car, it’s not OK. There should have to be some explicit agreement that someone was watching the child. There are a few too many people, unfortunately, who believes it takes a village to raise a child without notifying the village…

TA – I love your characterization of “free range kids”.

My siblings and I were rambunctious kids and my parents had the equivalent of CPS in their state called after my mother had three children in the ER for stitches on successive days (my brother once was in twice in 3 days for stitches over both eyes). I have a nephew who was disabled and passed away after an accident where he wandered away from home — you can’t lock children in a prison all day.

But there is a line to be drawn and bbell’s characterization of this being an issue for years and years sure sounds familiar to me. I grew up with kids in that category, and my children have friends who are routinely neglected. It’s scary and sad.

I’m generally a big fan of the ward staying out the personal business of people in the ward unless it’s violating covenants or commandments (we don’t audit paychecks at tithing settlement time, and we don’t look at family budgets if they’re not asking for assistance, and we don’t start auditing how church members spend their free time unless there’s some other issue going on…). But I’m willing to draw the line at situations where the state might take away the kids and thus impact their ability to go to church or practice their religion…

Although I must take issue with the idea of 30-degree weather being necessarily bad. Where I come from, that’s when we pack away the winter clothes and start wearing shorts and flip flops. Thirty degrees! Woo hoo! Drop another 15 and then we’re getting somewhere…

CPS can and does do tremendous harm sometimes. I would not call unless I truly felt the children were in significant danger. Offering to help parents who are overwhelmed seems much kinder and much more likely to truly help the children. The situation described in this post does sound like a serious enough situation to involve CPS, and for parents like these, they may be more willing to accept help if they know CPS is concerned.

I would dress up as an Indian and steal their kids. But really I think the answer is… teach by example, principle, and precept. Be a good example of how you think your kids should be raised. Dicuss the principles with the family directly and lovingly that you’re concerned with, and if they still don’t seem to take, seek help from the bishopric.

I think every stage has to be carefully and non-judgmentally done because even a great parent will have their defenses go up when they receive correction. Perhaps just asking them, what they think about leaving the kids alone by the window, by the pool, etc. Maybe sharing a story with them about some unfortunate accidents you’ve read about and let them know you’re genuinely concerned for them and their children and you feel prompted to tell them that. And I’d make every effort to point out that you’re not disparaging their parenting, because it’s likely they are wonderful parents in a variety of areas.

I called CPS several times about a family in my ward and so did others. They’d come in and lecture them and make them clean up the house and threaten to take the kids. I reported them to the bishop who didn’t do jack

I had no problem making the decision to report them but they were basically worthless. The parents kept their kids, pulled them out of schools when the authorities went after them, moved. Their kids are all grown up now and while they probably have battle scars, seem “okay.”

I’d hate to be a CPS worker, overworked and overwhelmed. Most of them are young, idealistic and clueless, bound by—and rendered blameless by—regulation.

But they’re all we’ve got and I’d turn in somebody I felt was abusive in a New York minute. Don’t care what religion they are.

Bbell,
That’s the bottom line isn’t it. I think we’re all capable of recognizing when we are wanting to meddle, and when we are afraid for the welfare of the kids. If you’re not sure, then ask your spouse or someone else that you trust not to go gossiping it about.
Once you know which group you’re in, then proceed as follows:
If the first applies to you, back off. If the second applies, then ACT NOW!

I was taken away from my parents because of abuse and neglect when I 7 years old. I am now 46years old and maybe I might be hyperventilate but when it comes to kids I always go with caution. If I suspect child abuse or child endangerment I don’t hesitate to contact the appropriate departments.

As a side note, I use to work for a Medicaid health insurance program. I got a phone call one day from a family. The “kid” was on the phone with me trying to find a doctor for himself. He claimed he needed a primary care physician, but his “mother,” claimed he needed a pediatrician. She was trying to convince me that her son ate tons, but could never gain weight and was trying to get me to recommend a pediatrician instead of a regular primary physician. The whole call was weird, and it was bothering me the whole day, nothing about what transpired sat with me the right way. Anyway, when I was on a break, I looked up the family again , and I forwarded the information to case management because something seemed wrong. As it turned out, I was right. Five days later, this kid was found outside eating from his neighbors garbage can. The case made national headlines. He had been starved and so had his foster brothers. The foster parents are now in jail, and they were placed somewhere else and at the appropriate weights that they are suppose to be at.

So, the moral of the story is do not hesitate under any circumstances when it comes to the welfare of a minor, you may be the only adult who notices and can save them.