In my ward there were some who read and embraced the ideas of Lynn M. Hiltons Kolob Theorem. The biggest problem for me with this kond of theories is the assumption that everything that exists must be observable, i.e. somewhere in the universe as we see it. But we don’t see spirits either. Still they do exists. There is more than what is to be seen with our eyes, maybe more dimensions – who knows. I study physics and I believe in laws of physics. They explain natural phenomenas with stunning accuracy. But there are more than what we can observe. Where or how – I do not know.

BTW I have to read what you have written about extra dimensions, it looked interesting.

Typo in the last line corrected.

bfw: I’m with you. I think that’s it’s possible that the other/previous universes explain the correct way of parsing the words “eternity”, “from everlasting to everlasting”, “eternal”, “forever”, “time” “end of time”, etc., type phrases in scriptures. There’s some sort of “do over” or “start over” point at the beginning and end of a universe that puts a very large “scope” or “limit” on the words that we think don’t have end-points.

I suppose our “heavenly aunts/uncles” (the exalted beings of Elohim’s generation) have their own universes, which exist along with ours in a bigger multi-verse. They don’t have to be “multiple dimensions” or “parallel”. They could be lined up like eggs in a carton, where each egg is a universe, and the container is the multi-verse.

Perhaps the big-bang, “beginning-of-time” or creation of this universe, plus the “end-of-time” or the “big-crunch” when the universe collapses, are “do-over” points, from which, in our time-bound mortal existance, we can use as end-points or a “scope” of the “forever” words.

The scriptures (Revelation and Section 76, I think) do mention a point where “the heavens and the earth shall pass away” and I think that may be either the collapse of the galaxy or the collapse of the universe (big crunch.)

In my personal view/speculation, I also leave open the possibility that our Heavenly Father’s dominion may not be the universe, but the galaxy. Galaxies seem to have their own beginning and end with their own mini big-bangs, perhaps associated with black-holes and white-holes. (It’s speculated by astrophysicists that there’s a black hole at the center of every galaxy.)

If the latter is the case, then the galaxies in this universe might be ruled by those other exalted beings of Heavenly Father’s generation, with our universe then pertaining to a Heavenly Grandfather. If that is the case, then one would still have to go to the supra- or meta-verse to comprehend further generations back.

My view also tries to encompass the possibility that Jehovah is the first-born-in-spirit among our “brood”, and that Heavenly Father has had previous groups of children which had their own “grand council” and a first-born-in-spirit Savior among that group. Perhaps it’s possible that while Heavenly Father’s dominion is this universe, that each galaxy represents one group or brood of His spirit children.

I think “the beginning” of Genesis 1:1 is not an absolute beginning. Using my “limit” or “scope” idea, I believe it refers to _our_ beginning or perhaps the beginning of our _turn_ on this planet.

Another question is what intermediate steps or dominions are there between that top-rung in the CK (consisting of the exalted or to-be-exalted children of Heavenly Father, ie, the Church of the Firstborn), and becoming Heavenly Parents along the likes of our Heavenly Father. The scriptures are vague to silent on that.

In the “Journal of Discourses”, Brigham Young and his contemporaries spoke a bit on these types of ideas. But after a few minutes of pondering, it occurs to me that I’m “looking beyond the mark” and I better get back to faith, repentance and baptism in the here-and-now.

John, #6,

I think the differences are when “forever” or “eternity” does a “reset”. The “reset” may be when time starts and stops in a local realm/creation/universe.

Some theoretical physicists or astrophysicists say that time is a “local phenomenon” that doesn’t really exist in the higher order dimensions.

By keeping these topics in mind, I can satisfactorily, for me that is, parse scriptural phrases such as “God has been God forever, from everlasting to everlasting.” Father Elohim “became” God (became exalted) before this universe existed, before our “local” time-frame, so that, speaking within the scope of our universe, He _has_ always been God. Back then was “before” “time” and cannot be counted as part of our “time”.

Only by taking that meta-view of time only existing in this dimension can I get around the “forever” and “always” paradoxes.

Knowledge of the higher/previous creations and generations of gods has been both a blessing and a curse. A blessing, because it reveals more of the mysteries on the way to the point where all things will be revealed in the millenium. A curse, because this additional light and understanding apparently contradicts the verbal descriptions used for God back when the bigger picture was not known.

I like to think that many of absolutes mentioned in the scriptures as far as “first”, “only”, “all”, or “forever” actually have parameters or a scope on them. Those absolutes may be only as universal as our planet (or our turn on this planet), or our galaxy, or our universe.

Perhaps it’s possible that “First”, “only” “everything” and “forever” may not “count” when going back (timewise) further than, or beyond (space-wise), the creation of this universe that we observe.

The scriptures about the “other sheep”, and the BoM references to the lost tribes teach a principle that God doesn’t consider it necessary to tell one group of his children about other groups.

The lack of clarity in the nature, or even in the existence of the Father and the Son in the Old Testament shows that even basic understanding of the Godhead is not given to all dispensations. Even the cases where Christ was speaking with “divine investiture” in the name of the Father were not clearly made known to members until the early 1900′s (Talmage?).

But, even without the King Follet discourse, Section 132 hints at previous generations of gods.

My point being that it’s evident that God did not reveal everything in the past all at once (and even those who did get “big picture views” were commanded not to tell anyone), therefore many scriptural passages have had to be re-interpreted or re-parsed with the newer understanding.

Perhaps this is why those who go there will need to enter Heaven like little children, as our best understanding of those realms is extremely child-like and rudimentary. Even the deepest or loftiest passages of our scriptures are at a kindergarten level in the description of what’s beyond. And _everything_ we think we know will have to be re-interpreted and re-parsed.

Other Christian religions are aghast at our concept of receiving “further light and knowledge” and claim it to be heresy. They don’t want to re-parse or re-interpret the scriptures because it goes against their 2,000 to 3,000 year old interpretations. Two thousand years ago, Jesus and his apostles were telling the Jews, “Hey, you got it wrong. Here’s what the scriptures really meant.” 180 years ago another group of prohets/apostles came along, and told Christians of the day basically the same thing: “You’ve got it wrong. Here’s what those scriptures really meant.” Neither group was really popular with the majority of the people.

I think that a lot of of speculative theology is really tough to advance since the 1914 correlation of the Godhead theology by Talmage. Much of what was discussed in the 1800′s doesn’t fit well with what we teach now. So ideas such as a council of Gods (which could influence a discussion of who’s in charge of this universe) don’t enter into the picture much.

If the idea is that Heavenly Father is God of the entire universe implies that the atonement that happened here 2,000 years ago redeemed the entire universe then I’m not sure what to think. It seems that if there are billions and billions (in my best Carl Sagan voice) of worlds in this universe the idea that ours is so special as to have the atonement performed here is incredibly unlikely, despite assertions that to the contrary.

I used to wonder about such things much more than I do now. Now I worry about whether we’ll make it to Church in time to take the sacrament.

I think we think we know sort of what we’re talking about when we talk about God and eternity, but really we have no clue. Sometimes, I wonder if our universe is just a tiny dot on the head of a pin that exists in somebody else’s universe. And then, I really am pretty much convinced that we’re all just hooked up to computers somewhere having virtual experiences based on our own particular test. Because I’m pretty sure in somebody else’s alternate universe, my co-worker for example, SHE’s the one whose phone didn’t work on two computers and whose program shut down and had to move twice last night. Perhaps she handled it better than I.

You know, I heard this thing on talk radio this big cheese science physicist guy said that black holes aren’t really holes at all, they’re sort of like big frisbees with a hole in the middle and they figured out they’re spinning millions of miles a minute and I thought, “well, that does it, we’re never figuring this out until we die and God reveals all.”

bruce, thanks again for the old article on your blog about the higher dimensions. Your wording, and relating it to how a 3d being sees a 2D space finally made something click with me.