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don’t wonder why I have been so disappointed in you Arlene. |
Have you read her book? Yes or no. |
Ann, The Obama book is outdated pretty outdated, considering recent developments this is a brief-but-good update Barack Obama, the great healer, is proving to be the most divisive president since Richard Nixon. |
She may be the quintessential American, but I don’t want to be governed by the quintessential American. |
Why not? |
Daniel, I’m going to ask you to tone it down. I do not care for Sarah Palin but the use of that terminology given the context of her family is frankly disgusting. If this were my thread I’d delete your comment. |
Daniel, you’re a troll. |
(And I was simply quoting annegb.) |
As long as you treat her like a celebrity that’s no different than a Glenn Beck, I have no problem with her. It’s when people start talking seriously about her being a leader of Alaska or the United States that I get a little confused. |
And Daniel really needs to spend more time in the south before he realizes just *how* quintessential Sarah Palin is. I was listening to a talk radio show yesterday where grown, college-educated men staged a series of boxing matches between listeners of the most popular talk programs in Dallas. The crowd was practically blood-thirsty over the Yankee-vs-Southerner bout. Believe me, there are large parts of Sarah Palin’s America where the South doesn’t think the war is over. We might all look at the AIP and cringe, but there are *significant* parts of America that are continuing to grow in political power and electoral votes who look at it and think, “hey, that’s a good idea!” The governor of Texas — idiot that he may be — jokes about how Texas should secede. The governor of Utah engages in religion-baiting. Like it or not, that’s your America. And the Dems aren’t much better. There is much to fear from Sarah Palin. There is much to admire about her history. She’s as much “quintessential” as Barack Obama or Joe Biden. But as I said, I don’t necessarily want to be governed by the quintessential American, just like I wouldn’t want the quintessential Mormon to be my bishop… |
And as someone who grew up with a severely retarded (mentally and physically) sibling, I’m appalled that you’d compare Sarah Palin to a retard (I realize now that the R-word is akin to using the N-word in developmentally-disabled settings). Clearly you have never spent time around developmentally-challenged individuals, or you’d never stoop to comparing them to Sarah Palin. ;) (But seriously, you’re a troll and whatever respect I might have had for your opinions, I’m rapidly losing.) |
Sarah Palin is a quintessential self-promoter and egotitst. When I think of the great Republicans of the past, I am heartsick that someone like her even gets attention. |
Daniel, You’re going to have to do better than “She is the one who parrots her child for political gain, not me.” You have a vocabulary. Use it. |
He has a vocabulary? Since when? |
I regret my #16. Consider it withdrawn. |
I don’t get the hatred of Palin. I don’t consider her to have the exceptional intelligence and vision that I want in a leader, but that hardly makes her worthy of such scorn. Dan Quayle in his early years developed a similar reputation for not being the brightest leader out there – but he earned far more light-hearted mockery than hateful scorn. A comparison of the public’s reaction to these two politicians seems to betray a double standard. |
Daniel, you’re banned. I don’t care if people don’t like her or disagree with my conclusions. I want civil discussion. If my conclusions are wrong, enlighten me. I have to get back to saving the world for ATT customers. I’ll check in tomorrow. I haven’t made any solid conclusions yet but I’m pretty syrprised at what I’ve read so far. |
She is NOT growing on me, but now that I can pretty much avoid her by not watching Fox News, I’m OK with that. I agree that her run was not the best for her family, but I suspect that participating in politics isn’t good for your family. I think you should push for your book club to read BOTH The Help and Obama’s book. |
BRP, Sarah Palin’s speech at the Republican Convention made me donate money to Barack Obama. The only time I have ever given money to any politician. She was utterly offensive as a person and as an ideal. She has doubled down on that offensive style and thus she is hated. I don’t care if you think she’s great. I will not be kind to her because she deserves no kindness. |
Daniel, I see that you have attempted to comment. As annegb said in #17, you are in a time-out for your potty mouth. |
I have no opinion on Sarah Palin, but annegb gets my vote. I admire her for wanting to read both Palin and Obama. That is very, very classy. I am interested for you to finish Sarah and let us know your full review of her book. I trust your judgement because you try very hard to be fair. |
I don’t have much use for politicians who eschew rational thought and intellectual argument as elitism. I’ll take a policy argument anytime over a “mama bear” who is telling us not to retreat, but to reload. The book may be a good read, but based upon the ghostwriter, I’ll have to pass. Good, better, best. |
I’m going to get all Obama’s books. The one I have is the one the library had, one was out and one was on order. Three, right? I think what’s really sad is that the polarity prevents people from seeing the good both people have to offer. What Obama says (and I have to study his book next) about single mothers is so compelling. It’s intriguing to me how Democrats seem to care more about the under-privileged, hence their focus on social welfare and the Republicans seem to care more about independence, hence their focus on hard work. Both are such valuable concepts. I wish we could come together and compromise instead of just fighting about it all the time, trying to one-up each other. Daniel’s harsh comments are an example of the polarity. Needless, pointless, useless. Sarah Palin bugs me. The tone of her voice grates on me. I don’t believe I’d want her for a friend. She looks through people rather than at them. Did anybody see how she handled that lady in Alaska who put up that sign against her? Now, for all his faults, Bill Clinton has “seeing eyes”–he doesn’t look through people. He would totally have handled that lady as a person. Palin, dang, she’s awkward with people. Embarrassingly awkward. She comes off brittle and shallow. Couple things: I’m into where she’s offered the VP candidacy. How she writes about that proves her stupidity in some areas. She’s completely blind-sided (as is Bristol, who supposedly said ok to the whole thing) by the attention the press gives to Bristol’s pregnancy. How could she be so stupid as to think that was going to be a non-issue given that Palin’s self-righteous attitude seems to condemn that type of situation. (Digression: I will bet a million dollars she and Todd had sex before marriage. And not just once) Then, she is so totally won over by the quest for the McCain presidency; just converted that he’s the most wonderful man and right for the job. Now. Here I am, no education or political experience, but (as I’ve said before) it was patently obvious McCain had no chance whatsoever to win that election. It’s like how could she not know Katie Couric wasn’t her friend—how could she not know she was spinning her wheels running with McCain? And that being said, why didn’t she put the welfare of her family first and wait a few years. That’s not savvy politics. Unlike wily old Mitt, who did the really smart thing. I mean, how did she not see that McCain’s choosing her was simply a desperate move to counter a rival who is a member of a minority? I’m put off by her strong pro-life stance. I, too, am pro-life. But I’m also pro-choice and if I had choose one or the other, I’d pick choice. She’s too rigid in her moral stances–allowing no one the right to be human. I might change my mind—I’m still reading! Pluses to this woman are her tremendous work ethic and her cheapness. She did save Alaska money. She worked her butt off as governor—she went over the budget the first time, line by line, shocking a lot of congressman when she threatened to veto their pet projecfts. They thought nobody would notice! She asked a staffer, “how did all the other governors do this, this is so much work?” Staffer: “They didn’t, they hired somebody to do it for them.” She honestly did help the economy of Alaska and took big oil to task. She, to use her crude word, has “cojones.” She ticked off a lot of Alaskan Republicans in the bargain. That’s backbone and I totally respect that. Firing the chef and bringing in the moose and salmon they’d gotten themselves—and cooking it up for her family—that’s big! There’s a lot to respect here. I sort of wish I could put her and Hillary Clinton into a blender. ESO, I’m really torn. I get to choose one book. December is open, but our book club leader said, “I don’t want to read Obama’s book just before Christmas and get in a fight!” And I thought, “why don’t you think there will be a fight over Palin’s book?—why should we fight over Obama’s book?” Odds are, the Democrat in the book club will boycott next month’s meeting. I won’t be there and my friend, who is staunchly Republican, but an incredibly critical thinker and reader, won’t care enough about fair play to really object the way this should be objected to. And they’ll all sit around and eat cookies and praise Sarah Palin. And they won’t grow. Anymore than Daniel’s book club meeting on Obama’s book would grow. |
Oh, and Ola, it’s not really what I’d call a good read. It’s not good literature, that’s for sure. The difference in the voices of the ghost writer and Palin are jarring to me. Autobiographies are always self-serving, even it’s Mother Teresa writing it, so I take a lot of the pats she gives herself with a grain of salt. It is fascinating, though, to read her take on the issues that were so public during the campaign. And her work ethic is just admirable in a way I cannot begin to describe. I’ve come to believe that anything great achievers achieve is more because of hard work and dependability than talent. She has some political talent, but she has energy to spare. She doesn’t have enough of the human quotient to make a good president. I think she’s too cold. |
And can I just say that Laura Bush is a complete class act? |
I want civil discussion. you are in a time-out for your potty mouth. This isn’t the MoMt I know. |
“It’s like how could she not know Katie Couric wasn’t her friend—how could she not know she was spinning her wheels running with McCain? And that being said, why didn’t she put the welfare of her family first and wait a few years. That’s not savvy politics. ” It has nothing to do with politics. If she was interested in being a politician she’d still be Governor. She’s right where she wants to be, and where she knew she could go even with McCain losing. She’s making money and influencing the party with no real responsibility. And taking a long flight while in labor with a handicapped baby coming is all I really needed to know about what she thinks about the welfare of her family. |
I don’t know, I can see that. She’d had four kids, she knew the drill and her own body. They really wanted him to be born in Alaska. Maybe it was risky, but I know plenty of regular women who’ve done crazy things when they were pregnant. Another thing I’m impressed with about her is her faith in God. This isn’t lip service. She reads and knows the Bible. She prays and has a meaningful relationship with God. Does that make her perfect? No. But it’s not a phony product of the political life. |
I will bet a million dollars she and Todd had sex before marriage. annegb, Part of the reason that Sarah and Todd had a quickie wedding on the courthouse steps was the fact that it was a shotgun wedding. I don’t think that they’ve tried to hide that, but it isn’t emphasized, which is a bit interesting in light of the media attention surrounding Bristol. |
I just wanted to say I like the post annegb. Although I don’t follow politics, and thus don’t care how a family is impacted in an election year, I think its incredibly creative of you to read both autobiographies. If I were part of your book club I’d ask you who you voted for out of the objective of clearing a possible hidden bias (for example, if you voted for Obama–I’d like to know if you felt his book fulfilled the standards/belief you had for him when you voted; and now that you’ve read the book, if your vote would have changed if you could change it). |
ARJ, I guess that makes her quinessentially American. Lots of people can say that. My problem with that is that she’s so self-righteous. Housewife, I voted for McCain. But I really wanted to vote for Obama. I was terribly conflicted. I didn’t feel really good about either candidate. Bill loved McCain, so I just voted with him. I haven’t made up my mind about Obama yet. I’ve come to an admiration of Sarah Palin that I didn’t expect. I still wouldn’t vote for her for president. But she’s got character and strengths that I didn’t realize she had. I guess, in voting for McCain, I did, though, huh? I haven’t voted for a candidate whole-heartedly since I voted for McGovern in 1972. No, that’s not true, I really like Gerald Ford. Let me see, I voted McGovern, Ford, Reagan, Bush, Perot, Bush, McCain. Did I leave anybody out? As independent as I supposedly am and as much as I criticize Bill, I trust his judgement more than mine and so I vote with him. We always consider our votes and discuss it. I felt like in this election I was voting for the lesser of two evils: Biden v Palin. And I just went with Bill because I couldn’t make up my mind in the end. The person I like best, and wish would run for president, is Senator Phil Gramm. I LOVED Pat Schroeder—I spoke with her once when I was involved with a movement to get reform in the way the military investigates suicides and urged her to run. She said she lost the fire in her belly. I would love to see another minority in the White House. I think it’s time–that guy from Florida intrigues me. But, for now, I like Senator Gramm’s reasonable tone and I like how his mind works. He’s my candidate. |
And I don’t think Audacity of Hope is a true autobiography, more a memoir. But I’m not into it yet. Starting it for reals this morning. |
Dan I let one of your comments in. Thanks for addressing the issue without name calling or posting the encyclopedia. This is one of the problems I have with Palin–the grating I spoke about. But after reading her book, I realize there is much to admire in this woman. I’ve learned something here and from here on out I’m going to be more diligent in studying candidates. Next week I plan to post “Barak Obama’s growing on me.” In the second chapter of his book so far. I recommend a reasonable tone. As much as Sarah Palin grates, your hysterical tone also grates and makes it difficult to find the nuggets of truth in your point of view. I want to hear you–I do, but I find myself weary of the polarizing tone. Calling her names, shouting in your posts defeat your purposes. |
which comment did you allow in? I don’t see my comments except the first one where I share my disappointment with you. I don’t know what upsets you about my comments. They’re no different than what you see from Sarah Palin or Glenn Beck. Offensive. Partisan. Polarizing. Don’t be upset to see the other side hit back. There is little to admire about Palin. She quit her job halfway through. Her reasoning is that she didn’t want to put the state of Alaska through her scandals. But of course she left to cash in. She is literally ignorant of history and of current events. She admitted before being called as VP that she had no idea about Iraq. She did not prepare herself for the interviews and made herself look utterly ridiculous and so easy to mimic by Tina Fey (who probably did a better presentation of Sarah Palin than Sarah Palin could do herself!). She was highly offensive to Barack Obama and to those who did not agree with her limited world view, calling them not “real America.” She is highly vindictive to any who cross her path (just ask Trooper Wooten in Alaska and Levi Johnston). She uses her children for political props. Must one really try and compare who she is and the life she leads to the lives of the Founding Fathers? If we are to “take back America” to that “simpler, better time” do you really think a Sarah Palin is the key? Or a Glenn Beck? Do you really think these kinds of people best represent the kind of America the Founding Fathers created? |
oh, and of course, she has to have a ghost writer help her write her books. Barack Obama wrote his own books. |
Final words on Palin: she did a lot of good as far as regulating the oil industry in Alaska. She put contracts out to a bidding process and took the contract away from –oh, crap, I think it was BP–no it was Exxon!– which has just assumed it had a monopoly for a long time. She faced off fellow Republicans over dishonesty and some are in prison, partly as a result of her efforts and frankly, her integrity. She pursued and won bipartisanship in many areas of Alaska’s government. Some of the things people have said about her come from one critic who made it her destiny in life to attack Sarah Palin, sort of like how Pentacostals attack Mormons. I’m taking that with a grain of salt. I studied the accusations and the websites as I read Palin’s book and the fanaticism in obvious. She went through the budget line by line and vetoed or had removed many projects that cost the state money, like a request for $43,000 for removal of shrubs at an elementary school that he felt were harmful to children, suggesting they get the scouts to remove them as a volunteer project. She didn’t “admit” to McCain’s team that she knew nothing about Iraq, she stated that she probably knew a bit more than the ordinary citizen since her son was serving there, but had a lot to learn. More politicians should admit they have a lot to learn. She begain her speech for the debate with “Joe” (it’s true, she says, she kept calling him “O’Biden) with a quote from Reagan: “We don’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream; we have to fight for it and protect and then hand it to them so that they shall do the same, or we’re going to find ourselves spending our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children about a time in America back in the day when men and women were free.” She believes this. She did not ask for those clothes; she objected to them, she and her family—staffers insisted on taking her father shopping to buy a different tie—felt demeaned by the insinuation that their clothes weren’t good enough. But she went along. She did refuse to wear the $70 nylons, choosing her cheap ones instead. The clothing was returned. I felt her take on the interview with Katie Couric (and even SHE thought she sucked!) was whining. Campaign staffers told her that Katie was feeling insecure and that the interview would be soft balled. I would never have believed that in a million years and I still feel she was shamefully unprepared to be ripped to shreds by a member of the press who makes no secret of her hatred of Republicans. She writes about being pranked by some radio DJ’s from Canada, with humor and a shrug. I thought it was really funny, too. Sort of a quintessential Canadian thing do. She writes about tripping and crashing while jogging and feeling real embarrassment that the secret service guys had to help her home. After the election, she made a speech in Fairbanks and emphasizes, again, her deep belief in states’ rights. And then turns to talk of their legal bills. She was exonerated of the charges and suits against her, but found herself $500,000 in debt. Now, considering she made a lot as governor and also considering that Todd had two very lucrative jobs, they might have made it. But I think she was tired, finally, and I think also she felt the time was right to write her book and took the offer of what was it—$8 million? It’s easy for people like her fanatical critic or Daniel, or others to second guess this decision. I’m not going to. I don’t know what I would have done in her shoes and frankly, neither do most of you. I’m impressed with Sarah Palin’s patriotism, by her work ethic and by some of the deeply Republican values she feels so strongly about. Levi Johnson to the contrary, she’s still married (and most people married that long know it’s about commitment because marriage is dang hard) and she’s close to her family and her extended family. Not every politician can say that. Lastly, I believe her when she says she believes in God. I don’t think her faith is lip service. She loves the Bible, quotes it all through her book and gets guidance and inspiration from it. Not every politician can say that. I don’t think she’s dangerous; I don’t think she’s a crook; I think she’s a good-looking woman with a tremendous work ethic, integrity, and one who has felt the “fire in the belly” for politics that those who wish Colin Powell would run for president would pay big money for. I don’t agree with her a lot of the time; I hate all this shouting from FOX and talk radio; but the Democrats are doing a pretty good job of shouting as well. If they ever make a moderate party, I will join it. Because, looking at this from my point of view, it seems like when the president is Democrat, the Republicans attack and the Democrats express outrage and dismay; but when the president is Republican, the Democrats do the same thing. None of them is without sin! It’s going to take me a couple of weeks to read Obama’s book. Daniel might be right, he might have written it himself, I think he did and if he did, he’s a damn good writer and thinker. Then I’ll check in. |
Daniel, “Not crediting your ghostwriter” != “writing your own books.” |
Daniel (19), How about just refraining from returning the unkindness you feel she has sent your way? Look, I am no great defender of Sarah Palin – I just don’t understand why her critics don’t see her for who she really is – a person who went from average citizen to national political figure in a very short period of time who continues to learn every hard lesson that comes with that transition under intense public scrutiny. I am convinced that the vast majority of statements that Palin’s critics take as mean-spirited or foolish are not intended that way – and I think we would all be surprised at how easily our words and actions could be twisted by critics and pundits if we were to suddenly find ourselves in the public eye. |
I am often appalled that those who criticize others’ outrageous behavior engage in same outrageous behavior. I think you’re right, BRP, about her learning on the job. But she does appear to believe her extreme rhetoric. It seems she is providing the departure from dignity that other “real” politicians are forbidden. So they turn her loose, act dignified and detached themselves while people cheer. The Democrats have their own junkyard dogs. Guess it’s a necessary evil. On that note, but maybe not really, I’m also appalled that her daughter is going to be on DWTS after criticizing Levi for being a media whore. Between Bristol Paling and the Hoff, I’m going to boycott the show as a matter of conscience. |