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Certain contingents of “Utah Mormons” would be upset. I think our ancestors would be relieved to have them just burning books and not houses, churches, temples, etc. |
I’d be really annoyed. Not because copies of the BoM themselves are too holy to be burned but because it is a completely scummy/weasely thing to do. |
The purpose of such acts in not to defile the book, but to intimidate. If I was in a country that regularly invaded Mormon countries and where there merits of hating were widely defended, I might be intimidated. |
I’d think they were idiots; I’d be annoyed that they were doing something that was obviously meant to provoke me and my church. And I’d be annoyed by their ignorance. But the actual act would be meaningless. In other words, they could have the same effect on me if they announced that they were protesting my religion by pouring melted crayons into empty Coke bottles. Meaningless. @Jota G: I’m pretty sure that certain contingents of “California Mormons” and “French Mormons” would also be upset. And let’s not forget those certain contingents of “Isles of the Sea Mormons.” |
CA Mormon. I’d be offended. I don’t think I’d be upset enough to do anything about it, but I’d be offended. I would lose quite a bit of faith in people. |
I can sorta see both sides to it–why is it protected speech to burn the American flag, but nearly a capital offense (to read some commentators) to burn the Koran? Shouldn’t they both be protected speech? Or is burning the American flag protected because it is just a political expression, while burning the Koran is also a religious expression? On the other hand, what is the point? All it does is prove you are a mean-spirited, petty man. Aren’t Christians supposed to be bigger than that? Actions like this guy are just another point where the US gives up the moral high ground to thugs who have hijacked their religion. |
No, mormons don’t think of the physical BoM (or bible) to be a holy object (heck, we write in them with multiple colors). And thus, that’s not a reason for offense. The vast majority of mormons whom I know were greatly offended and disturbed by the anger directed towards the church after Prop 8, which lead to protests and vandalism. And while spray painting a wall around the temple is a crime, but burning a book you bought isn’t, the general nature of the act is the same — it’s an expression of hatred and intimidation — which causes me to think that a great number of mormons would be offended. Now, the folks in the office of the Presiding Bishop may actually like it as it means greater sales of BoMs. ;) |
Meh.That’s pretty much all I would think. |
If the book burner had a handle-bar mustache and a congregation of 3, no big deal. If someone were trying to burn my copy of the BoM, then thats a big deal. |
I’d be somewhat offended if someone decided to do a Book of Mormon burning, but it would probably be a good thing. Americans in general wouldn’t accept that, there would be people speaking out on our behalf, and that could only help the church’s image. |
I’m ok with flag burning, BOM burning and bra burning. It’s kind of a scummy thing to do, but does it really affect what I think of those objects or what the represent to me (or what is represented inside)? Problem is other people don’t seem to be as laid back about it, General Petraus seem to think it will bring harm to U.S. soldiers. |
Kari, if only they made more money on each copy, aren’t they dirt cheap? |
Anyone remember Robert Maplethorpe? The progressives defended his desecration of sacred religious symbols. I do think that the burning of the Koran is a dumb thing to do, given that our soldiers are still vulnerable to some real crazies in Afghanistan and Iraq. However, burning the Book of Mormon, sounds like free advertising. Hopefully, it would generate interest in a lot of previously disinterested people, and they’d want to find out what’s in it that stirred so much emotion. Whenever pastors and priests preach against Mormons, it generally tends to increase missionary referrals. I remember one time on my mission where a lady pulled us off the sidewalk and wanted to know why the priest was threatening to excommunicate anyone who invited the missionaries into their home. Of course, she did it very loudly, on the sidewalk, making sure the neighbors heard, so maybe she was just trying to get ex’ed. Let’s face it, controversy generates headlines, and gets people’s attention and sparks curiosity. So, as long as no one gets hurt, and nobody’s property gets damaged, bring it on. |
A more apt comparison (to the Koran-burning controversy) would be burning temple clothing or garments – something we Mormons have a much stronger sense of reverence for. If people were talking about desecrating the temple, or temple clothes, I think Mormons would be pretty offended. |
I find it hard to throw away old copies of the scriptures. I know the paper isn’t holy in itself, but I respect the scriptures a lot. |
I’m not offended by anyone burning any symbol or “thing” associated with my religion or my country. Burn away! I assume that by doing such an act they are expressing some extreme frustration or annoyance with my church or country and I’m happy to allow them the freedom to express their feelings. Maybe it will even start a productive dialogue. If I get upset or offended and start hating back, I’m just part of the problem. |
Too, me its’ just disrespectful. You are venting your anger in the wrong direction, Islam is a very misunderstood religion. Burning the Quran does nothing but upset the fanatics, the people who don’t really read whats inside the Quran because they were too poor to go to school, so they have some guy reading it to them who has a score to settle. |
I’m basically going to “me too” to #1. |
After Prop 8 passed someone placed a burning Book of Mormon at the front entrance of our stake center. It made the evening news. I have no problem with someones free expression that doesnt directly inflict injury on another person. I just thinks it’s too easy for the national press to pass up the story for ratings, which is sad because from what it appears this is some backwoods church with no real following. The more proper angle should be noticing that it took the Ground Zero Mosque story to prompt some hillbilly pastor to capitalize on the culture clash between Islam and the West. A true service of the news media would be to not show up at all but that would clash with their basest instincts. Real moxy would be a gathering to “defile” the test at a site of significance, kind of like what the ani |
anti-Mormons did with temple garments during conference a few years ago. |
I heard a story about a missionary who got all excited when his companion cut up a paperback BoM to make flash cards, instead of copying the verses he needed. So apparently there are some of us who would care. If Heavenly Father doesn’t care, I don’t care. If He does care, then I glory in the retribution the BoM burners are going to collect. :) |
I would be so offended I would issue a call for the BoM-burners to be killed, including descriptions of the glory that awaits the killers. Oh, wait. No I wouldn’t. This is yet another reason why I wouldn’t make a very good extreme Islamist cleric. On the other hand, the fact that I think this burning of the Qu’ran is an inconceivably stupid stunt is yet another reason why I wouldn’t make a very good podunk, nominally-Christian pastor. |
I don’t think I’d be upset enough to do anything about it, but I’d be offended. Since the “top of the inconsiderate pyramid” is reserved for other crimes, I agree that it’s really not much to get worked up about. |
The best way to get people interested in something is to “ban” it. A Naziesque Book of Mormon book burning might be the best thing for missionary work. The book itself isn’t sacred, the principles and concepts therein are. They can burn the pages, but they can’t extinguish the ideas. I think the only thing I would be upset if the BOMs being burned weren’t purchased by the people during burning and were just cases that had been sent to them from the Church (thus paid for by my tithing). But then again, by ordering the books from the Church they will forever be in the missionaries’ area books and therefore subject to having their door knocked by the elders more than the average door. That might be justice enough. |
I wouldn’t care either. I agree with Jota – burn all the books you want, just lay off pillaging… |
Oops, that was Andres Serrano who received taxpayer dollars from the NEA to create/display a desecrated a crucifix as “art” back in 1987, not Mapplethorpe. I wonder if those who are denouncing the hillbilly pastor, if they’re old enough, also denounced Serrano. Is there a reason why we’re not afraid of bands of murderous Catholics seeking revenge for the desecration of their religious icon, but we are afraid of Muslims in this matter? Yes, there is a reason or two. For the record, I disagree with this pastor making a public burning of the Quran. I’m using my right of freedom of speech to say “I don’t think he should do that.” And I would also like to ask people to step back and see the bigger picture (in both historical context and current context) of what’s going on: Insult the Christians all you want, but don’t mess with the Muslims. I’m not calling for any disrespect or maltreatment of Muslims. I’m calling for a dose of similar respect towards Christians. I’m also trying to point out the disgusting hypocrisy of the progressives who have for decades told Christians to suck it up and take the insults, yet who have called for pandering to the apologists for violent radical Muslim jihadis and other terrorists. It’s like Orwell’s 1984. Some groups are more equal than others. And I believe that eventually it’s going to be like Neville Chamberlain and Hitler: Appeasement of those bent on evil doesn’t work. |
Attribution: some of my previous comment was inspired by Michelle Malkin, at And some was borrowed/paraphrased from DrewM at Ace of Spades, |
If we can tolerate Bookslinger…what can we not really tolerate. More nutters the better. |
Please no personal attacks on Mormon Mentality. Thanks for the comments all. I do think as some folks have pointed out that Temple Garments or Temple clothing might be more offensive to Mormons. For me I would not get to excited about burning BOM’s. I have seen worse much worse. |
#22 Ben- I’m holding a seminar next weekend on how to be a successful podunk, backwoods, nominally-Christian preacher. You should attend. |
It was not a personal attack…just a clinical observation after reading the thread. I am impressed by the extent that M* and Mor. Ment. are willing to cater to him. Good for you. |
Please forgive me, but aren’t new copies of the BoM supposedly “flame proof” (local rumor heard in the Midwest)? If so, I’d love to see to what extent people would go to try to get them to burn. If not, no I would not be offended. I would however be interested to know if any of the book burners read more than just the front cover. |
How about if the National Endowment of the Arts sponsored an exhibit that featured a photo of a Koran in piss? They did that with a crucifix. I don’t think that it’s reasonable claim that burning the Koran is like anything with the temple. I’ve got a Koran sitting on my bookshelf. There’s an edition published by Penguin Classics. Besides, Big Love aired the penultimate part of the temple ceremony last year. This sort of thing happens all the time. Why don’t we burn one Koran for every hostage beheaded on tape by Islamic terrorists? That would be something like 20. We could tie up the Korans, blindfold them, and cut them to bits. |
Back in the 90s (I think) I heard that Marilyn Manson, who was at the time performing as the opening act for Nine Inch Nails, had torn apart a copy of the Book of Mormon while onstage. I didn’t see this happen – but I was told by the proprietor of a used cd store that this was the reason why there were so many used NIN compact discs available. I guess some Utahns had decided, as a reponse to this act, to purge their personal music collections. |
Back in the 90s (I think) I heard that Marilyn Manson… That was October 18, 1994. The Book of Mormon incident was in response to a fit of community standards that led to the Delta Center telling Marilyn Manson not to perform. He didn’t, but Reznor gave him some stage time anyway and Mr. Manson tore up some holy writ instead. Edgy. |
For some perspective on the idea of burning books of scripture a quick google search reveals that burning bibles and other Christian religious materials is a pretty common occurance in Muslim countries. For example the Saudi Government regularly seizes and burns the bibles of its Christian workers. You can easily find other examples in Pakistan, Gaza etc. This does not excuse the idiot in Florida but it does offer some real world perspective on this topic. Thank goodness for the 1st Amendment! |
Here’s the link to the incident near Denver. I have no idea if anyone was ever caught, but I remember at the time reading that local authorities considered it a hate crime. |
My understanding is that the true Koran only exists in Arabic, and a translation has the sort of relation to it that a snapshot of a sculpture has to a sculpture. So I hope the Koran burners won’t offend Muslims by piling translations to be burnt, but will only use original Arabic printings for their infidel blasphemy. |
Book of Mormons were regularly burned when I was on my mission in Louisiana. Televangelists would rip it up on stage. It just made me think the people doing this and their supporters were pretty ignorant. Just like I think this yahoo in Florida is. Mainly I just blame the press. Probably Korans have regularly been burned by this class of Evangelical for decades. The press attention is what gave this national prominence and made it a security issue. Had the press just ignored the clown then no one would have cared. |
Let’s be perfectly honest: if an active Mormon burnt a Book of Mormon, it wouldn’t even make her a bad Mormon. For my part, I object to the very notion that it even matters whether anyone burns books, provided that they own them and they’re complying with local ordinances concerning controlled fires. Grow up, people. It’s just paper and ink. They can always print more. Back before the printing press allowed books to be mass produced, books were expensive and rare, and book burning was an awful thing. Nowadays, it’s a stupid and utterly futile gesture — like the Delta House’s disruption of the town parade, only without the laughs. The worst thing about book burnings is that they’re no fun — There’s nothing more boring than a book burning, and anyone who’s is genuinely offended that someone’s setting fire to any mass-produced book of any language or of any content is a retard. |
“if an active Mormon burnt a Book of Mormon, it wouldn’t even make her a bad Mormon.” And if she did it on a cold street corner where the homeless were huddled, it would make her a very good Mormon. |
exactly! |
hey, where’s the ‘like’ button for #’s 40 and 41?… i once threw a book down a trash chute in a fit of feist because i hated the useless self help garbage it peddled. listening as it tumbled down 10 floors of trash chute gunk was nicely satisfying–even cathartic. never burned a book, though. and if some dingleberry feels the need to burn a BofM in a fit of feist i say have at it. to each her own, i guess. |
I just heard on the news that the minister is neeting with the Imam–is that the right term? Gives me hope. One huge problem is the tit-for-tat mindset differences. If somebody in Iraq burns the flag, we might consider burning theirs. But if this guy burns the Koran, people are going to die. Muslims are crazy that way. I’m pretty sure that if a Baptist minister announced burning the Book of Mormon, at least here in Cedar City, he’d be mostly ignored. Which is what needs to happen in this case. Maybe the difference is that Americans (going back to Koran burning) are pretty secure, as a people and while offended, would just blow off somebody burning the flag. Well, we do, all the time. But many Muslim peoples have fragile egos and an insult is taken as a death blow instead iof a completely meaningles gesture. |
Actually, somebody burned a Book of Mormon on the front walk of one of our chapels here in Denver about two years back during the Prop 8 Kerfuffle. My response: “As for the burnt Book of Mormon, my basic thought is: Gov. Boggs would think they were all wusses.” As someone once said, no-one can offend you without your cooperation. ..bruce.. |
DKL is way off base with his comment. How dare you say Delta House’s actions were futile? |
jjohnson, I wouldn’t say it if it were just up to me, but I do feel justified quoting Otter & Bluto:
I come to praise the Delta House, not bury it. |
As long as they aren’t burning my Blackberry’s copy, I’m on board. :) IMHO, anyone starting fires to prove a point has some issues to deal with. (Not that I didn’t consider burning every shred of my husband’s belongings a few years back when we went through a rough patch, but that was a completely different point I was considering making.) I guess if you decide to burn a BOM because of some great hurt it’s caused you and it makes you feel better, knock yourself out! Wasn’t it once common practice among church members to burn garment markings??? |
Ah, I bow to your superior memory of the classics DKL. |
I have previously opined that if anti-prop-8 demonstrators ever came and protested at our ward on a cold day, our Relief Society sisters would serve them cookies and hot chocolate. (We have some professional bakers, caterers, and cake decorators in the two wards that occupy our chapel.) And ditto on the Gov. Boggs remark. African Americans and Jews would probably agree, that while book burning isn’t nice, it’s nothing more than foot-stomping and hanky-waving compared to real persecution. |