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| Wednesday, June 19, 2013 |
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I wonder if some of the hesitancy to bring it up is you can’t necessarily tell by looking at someone’s body whether they’re over-eating or not. Some people have thyroid problems and gain weight no matter what they do. People with “apple” figures look rounder and heavier than those with “pear” figures. Some people show any extra weight they put on while others somehow manage to hide 20 pounds of excess. So where do you draw the line? Make everyone figure out their BMI and call them to repentance if they’re in the obese category? Or merely the severely obese? Or even those in the overweight category? Good health should be taught, but I don’t think over the pulpit is necessarily the right place |
Plus if you tell women to have lots of babies, then it’s pretty hard for them to maintain a slim figure (and keep the weight down). Would it be better to not gain extra weight? yes. But the changing hormones and difficulty of finding time for exercising contributes to extra pounds being added on. So, I imagine church leaders would be reluctant to take the woman with 8 kids to task for having some extra padding. |
It’s also much more general than the more typically discussed WoW topics. There is no acceptable smoking limit. But how many Twinkies before you have crossed the line? |
I’m waiting for the day when the temple and COB cafeterias (and Deseret Book Lion House pantries!) follow the WofW and stop serving desserts and unhealthy food. When the leaders preach more organic, less meat, etc as God probably intended. I think diet Coke and desserts are huge health issues for church members! |
I think it is not discussed partly because it is such a sensitive topic and would inevitably upset/offend a lot of people. The other issue is, all of us are continually bombarded with messages culturally about how we should look and what we should eat, and I don’t think we need to hear more of the same at church. It simply would not be positive. |
It *is* a sensitive topic, but we do need to a better job of talking about it. And yet, we then schedule break-the-fast gorgefests, ward parties where everyone brings a dish “to feed 12″, etc. Thyroid and other health issues aside, we do need to encourage each other to eat less, eat healthy, and exercise. It’s not so much about the weight itself, but the lifestyle. |
Or it could be that it’s purely an “American” issue. Since the majority of church membership is outside of the states, it makes sense to cater General Conference to them. Discussing overeating when numerous areas members reside in do not have enough food to go around probably is not the best way to go about spiritually uplifting people. And chances are it’s one of those guilty habits a lot of GAs have. |
I well remember when Elder Gene R. Cook addressed the Huntsville Alabama stake conference one year. He specifically spoke about obesity, saying that we’re supposed to “have food storage, not carry it around with [you].” I was pretty shocked to hear that, as I was still fairly new in the church at the time. He later made a similar remark when he addressed my stake conference in Ohio. Apart from him, though, I don’t think I’ve heard too many mentions of it from the pulpit. |
Two things: We center our church activities around food, though there is no reason to have refreshments after every activity, really, but we do it. Food is alcohol for Mormons, it greases the social skids. We are very selective in our reading of the Word of Wisdom. Tiny bits of it, in a few areas, have become worthiness markers, but an eccentric, not entirely rational one. A couple of examples: Hot drinks? Well, not really, hot chocolate is fine, but, then, iced tea isn’t. Caffeine? Well, not really, only if it is in coffee or tea. It’s a Pandora’s box—regardless of its real wisdom—that few are interested in opening. Any greater attention would generate questions no one really is prepared to answer honestly. Thus we ignore most of it. |
I would like to see this topic mentioned more, not by concentrating on weight alone for the reasons you mentioned but by encouraging people to not overeat when already full and by picking healthier natural foods over processed and unhealthy things. Watching out for those things is beneficial for everyone regardless of how much they weigh. |
The topic of calories/obesity has been broached several times over the past few years in the Ensign. So there is movement towards a broader discussion. I expect it to be mentioned in General Conference within a year or two. Has anyone else noticed that President Monson is thinner than he was 8 years ago? I noticed he started slimming down a few years before President Hinckley passed away. Our North American LDS culture has a tendency towards obesity. Though, there is a correlation between childhood trauma/abuse and morbid obesity in adulthood. (Morbid obesity is BMI >= 40). In men, there are several common reasons for _morbid_ obesity, the most common being having one or more emotionally abusive parents. In women, the most common reason for _morbid_ obesity (generally in up to 90% of the cases) is childhood sexual abuse. Jes: Yes, the thyroid does play a part. Yet, in the cases where obese people have told me that they have a thyroid problem, I would estimate that they still eat 3000 or more calories/day, which is 1000 calories/day over the standard 2000 cal/day burned up by the average sedentary North American. The last person I remember telling me that she had a thyroid problem, said so with a 600 calorie brownie in her hand. |
A week and a day ago Sunday we listened to President Packer speak at our regional conference. In his talk he mentioned that we avoid harmful and addictive substances. Coincidentally I had just read an article at New Scientist outlining a number of studies suggesting that sugar and other types of unhealthy food can be addictive in ways similar to addiction to cocaine or heroin. And we all know sugar is harmful, at least in the forms and amounts in a typical American diet. |
Bookslinger, I’m sure thyroid issues are often a scape goat, but I’ve also known someone who spent years exercising an hour a day (hard exercise, not just a slow walk, and even exercised all 9 months of each pregnancy), always carefully watched what she ate, and could never manage to lose weight. After years of this, she was finally diagnosed with an obscure thyroid problem. With medication and a personal trainer and an even more carefully proscribed diet, she’s finally losing weight. So, I guess I’d rather see emphasis on health, not just overeating b/c you can’t tell by looking at someone what they’re actually dealing with. |
#2, [climbs down from soapbox] #7, You’re right, our obedience to the Word of Wisdom and ALL that entails is a much better topic for articles in the ensign or Stake conference than to be addressed to the membership at large (no pun intended). |
I think we need to live the Word of Wisdom and refrain from preaching the word of wisdom to anybody else. Mormons are so codependent. The only time we should preach the word of wisdom is when preachy people gripe about other people smoking. Then, raise your left eyebrow (as I can truly do) look at them with disdain and ask “weighed yourself lately?” Otherwise we should mind our own business? |
“Do we ignore that overeating is part of the Word of Wisdom?” How is overeating part of the WoW? Which verse do you have in mind? |
Anne I think you’ve got a pretty good point. I remember a quote from a Robert Kirby column from the late ’90s. |
If we’re going to live the “whole” WoW, I’m going to plant hops and grapes in my backyard and start making “mild drinks” and wine of my own grape. |
Am I being moderated, or did I say something in my last post that triggered automatic moderation? |
1. jes – fair point on the fact we don’t know why someone is heavy, although medical reasons are likely relevant for the minority of heavy people – most are like me… I tend to agree that good health should be taught… 2. jes – good point. 3. Lon – it is a broad discussion to be sure – twinkies – probably none are good at this point… (note: I do enjoy a twinkie or a ding dong every once in a while when I am traveling through an airport…) 4. anita – Diet Coke – now you are hitting below the belt. Just what is wrong with Diet Coke (beyond the fact that it has some unhealthy things in it – at least it won’t make me directly fat) 5. E Sun – yes, you have a good point on that – although we do hear about chastity all the time albeit mixed messages from in the Church vs outside. 6. queuno – I do agree that there should be a venue or approach to discuss this issue. I am guessing that many would take this more seriously if the Prophet made some type of comment about it in a tactful way – perhaps woven into one of his widow stories… 7. Newly Housewife – definitely an issue in other countries as well. Obesity rates are rising rapidly in the developing world as well. Now it is probably a guilty habit some GAs have I am sure… 8. paul robichaux – wow, now that would be interesting to hear at General Conference. I do think that President Hinckley could have pulled it off. 9. Jim Donaldson – agreed – food is the Mormon vice, particularly things like ice cream (at least for me). Fascinating comment – is this why we never hear talks about it given the myriad ways one could interpret it? 10. Mari – very good advice and that could be an indirect way to address it |
11. Bookslinger – I hope your prediction is right that we get a GC talk on the issue. I had not noticed Pres. Monson was thinner although he has always been a bit heavy. 12. buraianto – for those that don’t believe that sugar is addictive, they have never had some really good desserts. The more you eat the more you crave it in my experience. 14. Ron – agree on the soapbox topic completely. 15. annegb – nice thought. Have you ever done that? 16. BrianJ – I think the verses that discuss what is helpful to eat, one could certainly infer that eating healthy and in moderation is important – do you disagree? 18. Jota G – why not? I am sure DKL would be in favor of that 19. Jota G – I checked and did not find a comment in moderation |
Jota G, Go for it! People are constantly shocked when I tell them that Section 89 says that we should drink wine and beer. Odd that we don’t even know what the scriptures the WoW is based on say. |
Brian J: 10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man— If we are to use herbs and fruits “with prudence” and meat “sparingly” or “only in times of winter or of cold or famine” then we can’t really overeat and say we’re following this section of scripture. I think the GAs have bigger fish to fry (so to speak) in GC, so we are unlikely to hear a talk on this subject soon. Maybe if we get to the point where a majority of us have got the rest of the issues covered, then we’ll start hearing talks about overeating. Meanwhile, it seems to me that the GAs are trying to teach by example. There are relatively few GAs that are really heavy. Among the FP and the 12, there are practically none that are heavy. President Monson was probably the heaviest, but he has lost weight lately. That ought to tell us something about the subject. |
arJ: 5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him. 16 All grain is good for the food of man; as also the fruit of the vine; that which yieldeth fruit, whether in the ground or above the ground— To be fair, those are all the verses that can be said to talk about wine and beer and they cannot be interpreted to say that we “should drink wine and beer.” At most they say that we should drink wine only during the sacrament (and then only wine we make ourselves) and that beer is fine, if “mild drinks” equals beer, which it probably does. That’s not exactly a ringing endorsement, but it’s not a strict prohibition either, except relating to “strong drinks.” How much alcohol does a drink need to have by volume before it becomes “strong?” 3.2%? 5%? 10%? The scripture doesn’t say, but probably there are some beers that would cross that line, and most wines would. |
I have a comment in moderation if someone will free it. Thanks. |
MCQ, My understanding of the circa 1840 distinction between strong drink and mild drink is that strong drink has gone through a distillation process in order to increase the alcohol content. So the question isn’t how much alcohol but how the drink was made. I agree that it isn’t a ringing endorsement, but so many people think that those things are outright prohibited by the scriptures that it is fun to point out that they are in fact specifically allowed. Also, does “corn for the ox,” mean that I can’t drink anything containing HFCS? It seems that Section 89 prohibits corn more than it does alcohol… Yet nobody has ever questioned me on my corn consumption. |
Hm. Never heard that about distillation. Are the beers that have high alcohol content distilled then? Totally agree on the rest of your comment. Especially about HFCS, which is of the devil. |
I am not really up on my alcohols. My understanding is that beer is never distilled. Malt liquor is what you get when you do some distillation. Similarly wine is fine, brandy is not. Port would not be ok either as it is fortified. All of my knowledge on this subject comes from watching my dorm-mates experiment with a great variety of alcohol so I really have no idea what I’m talking about. |
I think thin people get a pass on what they eat, and just because someone is thin doesn’t mean they are healthy. They can still carry a lot of fat around their organs depending on what they are eating. I know I am overweight. I am overweight because of bleeding disorder that causes me to be on steroids, but my numbers are probably better than any person on here. My cholesterol is 100 my blood pressure is 110/60. My doctor is extremely pleased which my progress. I lost weight during the height of the holiday season last year. How did I do that, I adopted a dog and I walk him 3/4 times a day. So you know what I say, stop concentrating on what I’m eating and worry about what’s going into your mouth as well as whats’ coming out |
@13) “an obscure thyroid problem” apparently you don’t believe the power of the thyroid gland has over the body. The Thyroid gland controls everything including the chemicals in the brain. As someone who has what you call an obscure thyroid problem, I can assure you it is not obscure and I can assure you that I can actually feel the difference when my thyroid is not functioning at the right levels because I feel absolutely terrible. I can only hope you never have to suffer from the effects of thyroid imbalance in your life. Because it has affected mine greatly |
Diane, I don’t think anyone is talking about you on this thread. The issue is whether overeating is or should be considered part of the WoW. If you do not overeat then I don’t see how you are implicated in that discussion at all. It’s obviously not against the WoW to be overweight, per se. It is only a potential WoW issue for those of us who stuff our faces far more than we should, Like me. Luckily, I exercise like a maniac, but if I didn’t, I would weigh 400 lbs. Now if I filled up on some good mild barley drinks instead of cake and ice cream I would probably be much healthier. |
I never said anyone was, but the general feeling of this thread is that people who are overweight are being lazy and sitting around doing nothing except to stuff their face. The other common thread seems to be feeling that those who have weight issues are not following the WOW. That’s the furthest thing from the truth |
Diane, I was trying to defend people with thyroid problems. I used the word “obscure” b/c I couldn’t remember what it was called and it seemed that it wasn’t something ordinary b/c it took years to diagnose. Overall, I guess I’m reluctant to hear overeating discussed as a church/righteousness topic b/c we’re already too quick as members to judge based on appearances. So, the person holding the 600 calorie cupcake might be having their one treat for the week, or they could be binging nightly. We don’t know. The naturally skinny person could be downing twinkies while a rounder person could be running 3 miles/day. |
27. a random John – me thinks thou dost protest too much… Where is DKL when we need an expert on booze? 28. Diane – I agree that there are people (like a certain person whom I am very close to) who can eat whatever they want and stay thin while others gain weight just looking at food. However, as MCQ mentioned, the thread here is whether we should talk about being overweight at part of the WoW and discuss it at Church. I don’t think anyone is being judgemental, in fact, since 2/3 of people are overweight, 2/3 of the commenters here likely are (myself included). 30. MCQ – Beer has a lot of calories in it as my work colleagues tell me, so they go with hard liquor which they say has less calories |
Caloric Content of Alcohol: http://www.askmen.com/sports/foodcourt_150/150_eating_well.html Note that alcohol has calories on it’s own. |
I am about 20 lbs heavier then my ideal weight. Its really because I like to eat. My wife is also 15 lbs heavier then she should be. We both know this. We also know if we cut down on our eating we would be thinner. We work out a lot but its not enough to overcome our intake of Ice cream and chips. A few years ago we cut our intake and magically lost the 20 extra lbs. Then we relaxed and fell back into our old habits and got heavier. For most overweight people this is the simple reality. |
Diane, in Jes’s comment, the adjective “obscure” referred to the problem, not the thyroid. Jes was actually making your point, and I think you thought she was saying the opposite of what she meant. Jes was referring to my comment, in which I was probably being overly judgemental. You and Jes are right: There are obese people who have medical problems that cause them to be obese. However, they are a small minority of all obese people. Obesity (BMI > 30) is so prevalent now, that merely being “overweight” (25 < BMI 40), which means the person is gonna die before their time, and rack up a lot of medical expenses for the obesity-related illnesses along the way there. |
crud, the previous comment got garbled cuz my < and > got interpretted as HTML. If a mod would delete the previous, I’d be much obliged. |
I agree that there are people (like a certain person whom I am very close to) who can eat whatever they want and stay thin while others gain weight just looking at food. However, as MCQ mentioned, the thread here is whether we should talk about being overweight at part of the WoW and discuss it at Church. I don’t think anyone is being judgemental, in fact, since 2/3 of people are overweight, 2/3 of the commenters here likely are (myself included). |
