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This is an excellent post and really captures the essence of the problem. The Tea Party, while right-minded in many ways, puts mainstream republicans on the horns of a very difficult dilemma. They are happy to have a shake-up of the complacent establishment in the party, because they are also angry about the excesses of the Bush years and the lost opportunities they represent, but the cost is too high if the shake-up means they lose senior republicans in leadership positions in favor of bufoons who are either unelectable or, even if elected, will be isolated and powerless in office. The Tea Party started out to be the best thing that ever happened to the Republican Party, but now it may be its worst nightmare. |
The problem is Delaware, isn’t just that the Tea Partiers pushed through a conservative for the nomination, it’s the they pushed through a conservative who seems pretty close to a nut job. |
They did in Del. and possibly Nev. But thats about the limit to the damage. The political upside for the GOP is much much larger. |
The basic problem is that everyone wants to generalize from a single instance: “The Delaware nomination proves that they’re whackjobs.” This is the view that the mainstream media has taken. It’s just plain silly. Seriously, it’s laughable. The GOP and the Democrats nominate scores of losing candidates each cycle, many of whom are pretty nutty when it comes right down to it. Given how many seats Obamacare is going to cost the Democrats, why isn’t anyone exclaiming over the lunacy of the Democrats for passing it? |
Would it be desirable that the GOP win either House? |
Wait, “possibly in Nevada”? She might be preferable to Reid in some quarters, but given some of her public statements, I think it’s pretty clear she’s on the other side of the bridge to normalcy/reality… |
The reason I used possibly is that they are tied in the polls. O’Donnell will lose and Angle might. |
Another thing to consider is that much of the anti-O’Donnell sentiment is not so much driven by her positions on the issues, but her…..what could charitably be called “character issues”. As I understand Rove’s position, it is “if we’re going to go with a solidly right-wing candidate as the nominee, let’s pick someone who won’t self destruct”, not that she is per-se “too conservative.” |
DKL, it’s not just Delaware. Losing a Senator like Bennett in Utah in favor of a guy like Mike Lee is a big net loss to the party. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that the Democratic nominee could win, and that’s saying something in Utah. |
MCQ, too many politicians die in office. I liked Bennett — he was elected when I was attending BYU. I remember that when he ran, he committed to only serving 2 terms — a pledge that he broke in 2004 when he ran for re-election. He should have been voted out of office back then. And why is it that every time voters want to hold elected officials accountable for their voting record, everyone wants to claim that the politician in question is valuable in her own right? |
I was going to chime in with exactly what MCQ just said. Even if Lee wins (and I expect him to) the party is harmed. Unless harming the party is your goal… I think much of the firestorm could have been avoided if republicans had simply stuck to Reagan’s 11th commandment: Thou shalt not speak ill of another Republican. |
If the two term thing is his greatest sin then he’s the best politician in the history of our country. |
MCQ, Here is the data on the utah race. No chance whatsoever that Mike Lee will lose. Lee represents the state of politics better in Utah then Bennet did. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2010/senate/ut/utah_senate_lee_vs_granato-1626.html Bennett was way to liberal for Utah. I am serious. He was out of touch with his own base. Which is why he lost and why Hatch will probably either retire or lose next go around. |
Nice post DKL. I was discussing this exact issue with two friends who are Tea Partiers. They are wacko extremists which is why we usually don’t discuss politics (usually it devolves into Obama is a secret Muslim terrorist that only got elected so he could tear apart the U.S. and sell it to Iran). They both actually prefer a Tea Party candidate like Angle or O’Donnell, they even think that guy that’s running for Governor in Colorado is a great pick because he uses the Tea Party buzz words. The reason the prefer these candidates, not even really caring if they win, is that “they’re sending a message”. These two Tea Partiers believe that if Tea Party candidates lose to Democrats, then the GOP will have no choice but to fully back Tea Party candidates in 2012. I’m not sure if it will actually work, if the economy is better in 2012 I don’t think the GOP will care much about tea Party candidates. |
It’s a little strange that part of your post is tearing apart the media and talking about the lack of trust without even bringing up Fox News. Cable news in general has done more to destroy journalism’s credibility than anything else imho. |
The problem with that notion, jjohnsen, is that in measures of viewer confidence, Fox News ranks much higher than other media outlets. If liberals weren’t so interested in savaging anything that doesn’t echo their prejudices, they’d realize that Fox’s more objective news reporting, based on the strict line that it draws in it’s evening and prime-time programming between news analysis, news reporting, and commentary, would actually increase the credibility of the more traditional outlets. But, yeah, I know… It’s an article of faith that those Fox News personalities that are actually on the reporting end of the spectrum, like Bret Baier (and Britt Hume before him) and Shepard Smith are all slaves to the cause of right wing propaganda. |
Interesting post, DKL. The Tea Party’s shake-up of the Republican establishment is a fascinating issue. So, why’d you have to go and lose all credibility by parroting a bunch of cliches about the traditional media? C’mon, DKL. You’re losing focus here! The truth is that the traditional media absolutely loves the Tea Party. Methinks you watch too much Fox News. |
I don’t actually watch much news at all. It’s on at the same time as UFC Unleashed on Spike TV. |
Re: the Mike Lee/Bob Bennett episode …. if you think that’s going to make a whit of difference to the GOP at the national level, you need to get out of Utah more often. |
DKL, the point I make in the attached post at M* is that the tea party is the only force that is going to get the Republicans to look seriously at the deficit. We had six years of a Republican president and Congress, and spending went up each year. And we’ve had four years of a Dem Congress and two years of a Dem president, and spending is accelerating even faster. It’s simply unsustainable. Something has to change. What would a movement for bringing genuine change look like? A lot like the tea party movement? http://www.millennialstar.org/learning-to-love-the-tea-party-movement/ |
For a “moderate” like myself, context is critical. Tea Party Republicans are forcing Republicans to answer tough questions about their conservative credentials. They may not be well-advised in doing so- frankly I think many are fed by conservative spam and nothing more- but the conversation is definitely shifting. Republican incumbents are answering those questions or are falling by the wayside, either in primaries or in the election. And if Liberals would have the sort of populist grass roots strength that Tea Party Republicans have- which Liberalism has been touting for years- they could have a similar effect on the approach of their candidates to the office. I resent the notion that the party means more than the politics, though I see the trap in that thinking: my politics can get nowhere without the power of the party. All in all, the Tea Parties and all their fuss and shaking-up are much better for the party in the long term than the alternative. |
re 13: “Bennett was way toop liberal for Utah” There is no way to describe Bennett as “liberal,” at least not based on his legislative record. |
Geoff B., I agree. From what I can tell, the Tea Party is less about Obama’s election 2008 “change”- which has proven to only be about change from one party to another- than it is about ideological change within politics. And to their credit, they have shown integrity in their effort- not being afraid to lose a few races in order to really make the change happen. |
JrL, I think that’s for the voters of Utah to decide. Geoff, thanks for the link to that post. Very nicely done. |
Does that mean that Fox News is more worthy of confidence or that Fox News viewers are more likely to believe what they’re told? |
The title of your post made me laugh. I had two thoughts. 1) If Republicans are “tea partying while Rome burns”, then what are Democrats doing? “Orgy-ing while Rome burns”? 2) I’d much rather have a “tea party” that turns the bums out than a violent revolution. |
DKL, |
Of course the top dog Republicans are against the Tea Party. They’re just as bad as the top dog Democrats, in most cases, you can’t tell the difference between them. None of these top dogs want that kind of radical change- they like the backdoor deals, pork, and power. It funds their private businesses and interests and gives them a life of luxury. They don’t want a bunch of no-good, do-gooders coming in to wreck the sweet set-up they’ve perfected over the last century. |
Tim, I understand how party nominations work. I’ve been a delegate to the Virginia Republican Convention and voted in many primaries. Any voters who felt that Bennett was conservative enough could have joined county committees and ended up as delegates to the convention. The advantage (and disadvantage) of a convention is that, by making it more difficult to participate, it narrows the input to those who feel that they have the most at stake by participating. Nothing you’ve said is relevant to this fact. |
I guess if you’re drawing a line between a couple of hours of regular news and then the majority of their programming. But is the viewer drawing that distinction? Because I don’t think viewers of MSNBC finish watching a news broadcast and then tell themselves “Ok this Rachel Maddow is just opinion show so I need to be wary of what she says”. Same thing with Glenn Beck, viewers aren’t treating his show as a separate entity from a Fox newscast. Fox News was just who I brought up because you didn’t mention them, it’s more of a problem with cable news as a whole. There’s no firm line between journalism and opinion, and they have lots of hours to fill. I may as well watch the national news on NBC, then treat Community as a hard-hitting expose on college life. |
“DKL, the point I make in the attached post at M* is that the tea party is the only force that is going to get the Republicans to look seriously at the deficit. We had six years of a Republican president and Congress, and spending went up each year.” I think we’ll know how big of an impact the Tea Party had (or will have) in two years. If the GOP takes some control in November and actually tries to accomplish what the Tea Party want, then they’ll be a huge force in 2012. Going by past elections I have a feeling these same people will be screaming about Mike Lee being a RINO in two years. Maybe there are Tea Party candidates that actually believe in this stuff, but I think it’s more likely that they’re going to say whatever brings the Tea Party out to vote, then it will be spending as usual. Just like there was no huge change with Obama, there will be no huge change after this election. |
Jjohnsen, personally, I think the Republican party should have gone much farther and adopted that Cato Institute proposals, which would have cut nearly a $1 trillion per year from a $3.7 trillion budget, including getting us out of Afghanistan quickly and devolving drug policy to the individual states. But then liberals would have been hollering about how heartless the Republicans were by hurting the seniors, hurting the farmers, killing the poor, etc. So, it’s difficult for me to take claims of “spending as usual” seriously when any attempt to stop the spending as usual would be met with demagoguery as usual. And even with all that, the Republican Pledge still calls for some fairly significant cuts, bringing the discretionary budget to 2008 levels, stopping TARP and bringing greater transperancy to the budgeting process. You gotta start somewhere. |
DKL, If you know how party nominations work, you should know that the process does not represent the “voters of Utah”. Your point that “anyone could join” doesn’t negate the fact the parties’ decisions do not represent the “voters of Utah”. This is especially true of the caucus nomination process of Utah. Additionally, your argument that “in measures of viewer confidence, Fox News ranks much higher than other media outlets” doesn’t mean that they are more objective. It just means that their viewers believe that Fox is more objective. This is what we would expect from an more ideologically pure news source, as people tend to believe that which conforms to their pre-existing world view. In So. Nevada, the battle between Angle and Reid is pretty nasty. Angle is sticking pretty close to a few talking points, as every time she goes beyond them she says something embarrassing it seems. I’ve yet to see a positive cogent message come from her campaign that didn’t somehow include an indictment of “Dirty Harry”. I am not at all clear what “hope” she offers. |
We’ve had this discussion before Geoff, but I’ll take their claims of fiscal responsibility seriously as soon as they take a knife to the defense budget. That goes for the Democrats and Republicans. But I do love some of the Cato proposals. |
When it comes to the “Republican Pledge” and the feeling that it may not go far enough, it stands to reason: those putting forth the Pledge aren’t trying to win the votes of the party faithful or the Tea Party — they’re trying to win the votes of moderates, independents, and swing voters — people who don’t think that the remedy to Obama’s left-wing overreaching is their right-wing overreaching. |
Jay S, name one person who voted in the convention who was not a Utah voter. Name one Republican-registered voter who was actually denied a chance to participate in the convention system. The convention represents a self-selected group of voters who view their own stake in the election as higher than that of other voters. You can argue that primaries are preferable to conventions, but that’s beside the point. Again, nothing you’ve said is relevant to this. |
He’s only arguing that that self-selected group might not be a good representation of Utah voters. Which is probably true because unless they took part in the convention, I don’t know anyone that considered Bennett liberal in any way. But to hear that self-selected group screaming , you’d think Bennett was a hardcore liberal. His voting record doesn’t reflect any liberal streak. They took his vote on one issue and somehow made him into the boogey man. |
By the estimate of the source that bbell linked to: “in almost any year, in almost any state, a Republican senator with a lifetime American Conservative Union rating of 84 percent would be considered conservative enough to win re-election.” Bennett’s ACU rating was 84%. It just goes to show how the thinking goes at this point in time, that bbell and others consider that “way too liberal for Utah.” It’s a crazy view, but crazy is where we are at. DKL, seniority has some value. If you’re going to get rid of a sitting senator or congressman it’s worthwhile to weigh his or her seniority as part of the equation. Seniority equals power in congress and power gets more done. |
In fact, chances are that if “the voters of Utah” had actually been able to vote for Bennett in the primary elections, he would have won. I seriously doubt that. Jason Chaffetz, a relative political unknown, actually got a higher percentage of the vote against Chris Cannon (the incumbent Utah third congressional district representative) in the Republican primary than he did in convention, something like 70% to 30%. That was two years ago. And Cannon didn’t have anything against him I am aware of other than support for immigration amnesty. Anyone eligible to vote in Utah can join the Republican party (even temporarily), show up at his or her local Republican caucus and participate in the selection of delegates to the state Republican convention. I was voted a delegate despite being new to the area and being unknown to three quarters of the attendees. Anyone who is in touch with the majority feeling of the party members in the local precinct has a good chance of being elected. And indeed many Bennett supporters were elected throughout the state. They just came in _third_, fair and square. It is not like Bennett has some sort of a right to a Senate seat. Any elected official who feels he has a right to more than one term really should find a new line of work. If he really doesn’t like the way the local party (which chose him to as their nominee on three separate occasions) he can run as an independent next time around (or a write in this time). As to the pros and cons of Utah’s caucus system, it is worth mentioning that Utah is generally recognized as one of the best governed states in the nation. One possible explanation for that is that elected county and state delegates do a good job of selecting candidates. If there is any real contest between the top two vote getters, a primary is held. |
Is Utah really recognized as one of the best governed states in the nation? I have no idea, I’ve just never heard that before. |
Look at polls from April and May. “Polls show (Bennett) is still favored by a plurality of all Utah voters, if not GOP delegates.” “Among just registered Republicans, Bennett has the lead with 32 percent of the vote, Lee finishing second with 12 percent. Thirty-five percent of GOP voters are undecided.” Meanwhile, a significantly lower percentage of delegates supported Bennett. Had all Utahns (and not just delegates) voted, Bennett, with about 1/3 of the votes in hand (and with another 1/3 of the votes entirely undecided) would have at least gone to the primaries. I know some delegates, and I know they tend to be more extreme right-wing than most other Utahns. The polls support this (for example, 32% of the public supporting Bennett while, at the same time, just 22% of the delegates did). Chaffetz v. Cannon is an entirely different story. Part of that story involves the fact that only 1/3 of all Utahns (including some incredibly conservative areas) were eligible to vote in that election, and part of that story involves the fact that Cannon wasn’t nearly as well respected as Bennett. |
“Is Utah really recognized as one of the best governed states in the nation? I have no idea, I’ve just never heard that before.” Yes, at least according to Governor Herbert, who announced that very thing in a speech I attended recently. However, I think that fact has more to do with being fiscally conservative and maintaining a high bond rating, than anything regarding elections. “Cannon wasn’t nearly as well respected as Bennett.” You can say that again. Many mainstream republicans regarded Cannon as basically insane. |
Well, I like your arguments, however I differ with you on one thing: Karl Rove is not a true conservative. Karl Rove is a Republican seeking to put Republicans in power no matter what. He is focused completely on the two party system, rather than on principles. George Washington warned us about the party platform concept in his Farewell Address, and so this is exactly what we get: politicians instead of statesmen. People who seek to stay in office regardless of the cost or promises to leave after a couple terms. Seniority is what matters, not principles, so we get John Boehner, who was involved in the Bush economic collapse, as a Republican leader who is only giving faint praise to the Tea Party. What happened to the Reagan conservatives? They were replaced with people who speak conservative, but act for their own interests. And that is what Karl Rove is, a self-interested Republican. |
“Yes, at least according to Governor Herbert, who announced that very thing in a speech I attended recently.” Hehehe. Well if the guy who is in power and is trying to get re-elected says so… |
What are you saying jj, you think he gave the award out himself? Sounds very likely, but no, he was citing an award of some sort from some magazine. You may think it’s self-serving but really it would be stupid of him not to talk about it. |
Is Utah really recognized as one of the best governed states in the nation? Pew-funded Governing magazine recently ranked Utah and Virginia as the top two best-governed states in the country. Rounding out the top five were Washington, Delaware, and Georgia. However, I think that fact has more to do with being fiscally conservative and maintaining a high bond rating, than anything regarding elections. The suggestion is higher that quality candidates (by close evaluation of elected delegates) leads to such fiscal conservatism, quality of government, etc. |
Many mainstream republicans regarded Cannon as basically insane. On what grounds? The guy was re-elected five times, generally with commanding leads in the Republican primaries. People really judged insane don’t get re-elected – not in Utah’s system at any rate. |
What this country needs is another Martin Luther King to stage a peaceful tea party. The shouting of Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin might make conservatives feel empowered but increasing the polarity isn’t the answer. |
“What are you saying jj, you think he gave the award out himself? Sounds very likely, but no, he was citing an award of some sort from some magazine. You may think it’s self-serving but really it would be stupid of him not to talk about it.” No,it totally makes sense, it just sounded funny “the governor running the state says it’s the best run state”. |
Tim, Jay S., I don’t know a single Utah Republican that considered keeping Bennett. I constantly heard that he was too liberal and a RINO. I know a number of people that went to conventions and this was expressed over and over to the delegates. Personally, I hate both those arguments. The better argument is that he was unbelievably corrupt and peddling Utah’s resources. Again, this was expressed over and over to the delegates at conventions. That the polls may have said otherwise likely says more about the polls than the public. |
“On what grounds? The guy was re-elected five times, generally with commanding leads in the Republican primaries. People really judged insane don’t get re-elected – not in Utah’s system at any rate.” Really? You can say that about Utah politics with a straight face? What about Merrill Cook? Of course, in the end, Cannon wasn’t re-elected. He was beaten badly by a virtual unknown. That’s the election I was talking about, and the reason he was beaten so badly is because he was so erratic. Chaffetz ran a smart campaign, but if Cannon was judged to be a successful, smart, stable guy, he would have won that election or at least made it close. It wasn’t. |
Not only was Chaffetz a political unknown, he doesn’t even live in the district he represents! He’s not only a tea-bagger, he’s a carpet bagger as well. |
nasamomdele #50: That’s just flat ridiculous. Statements like that just show that you have zero cerdibility. I know Senator Bennett personally and my mother worked for his father. His chief of staff is a good friend of mine. I know many many republicans, including myself, that thought he was a smart, dedicated senator who worked hard for his state. You can say you don’t like the results he acheived, you can say you want someone who is more of a conservative hard-liner, but you can’t say with any credibility that he had no supporters or that he was “unbelievably corrupt.” That is not true, and worse, it’s slander. |
None of my Republican neighbors hated Bennett, and most of them have probably never used the term RINO in their lives. They skip the primaries and vote for whoever has an (R) next to their name. I know all this because the first 15 minutes of EQ is spent discussing it every time an election rolls around. I’m willing to bet the majority of Utahn are like that, and the polls at the time back me up. All of us understand why Bennett lost, but I don’t think any of us are the typical Utah voter. |
Mark D., You’re entitled to your own opinion, but not your own facts. Chaffetz beat Cannon 60-40 in the primary, which is almost exactly the margin at the convention. Cannon was known as very conservative except for the issue of immigration, on which he was a moderate. Heaven forbid. And yes, it is well known even among Republicans that the delegates are more Catholic than the Pope and are pretty far right of “mainstream” Utah Republicans. I happily admit that Chaffetz example doesn’t bear this out, but the Bennet example does. Polls show that were he to run as an indie Bennet would be within the margin of error of Lee in the general election. I’m pretty worried about Lee. He has made statements that as a senator he’d act in the interest of his client, Energy Solutions. That’s unacceptable. Once he’s a senator the people of Utah are his only client regardless of his past relationships with various businesses. |
You and me both, arJ. Lee seems dangerous to me, but he says all the right tea party things, so he gets the (R) next to his name. If he wins, it will be interesting to see what he actually does, if anything. |
Utah should have an official Energy Solutions party given that soon 2 out of our 5 senators and representatives will have worked for them. |
MCQ, You are correct on the absolute percentages. My mistake – I remembered incorrectly. The numbers for Chaffetz in the primary (60-40) _were_ slightly higher than they were in convention (59-41), which belies the suggestion that the delegates were conservative radicals out of touch with the rank and file. Political polls conducted before people have had a chance to study the issues and the candidates are little more than a popularity contest. By the time the primary rolls around, the evaluation of the voters tends to converge with that of the delegates. |
I’m pretty worried about Lee. He has made statements that as a senator he’d act in the interest of his client, Energy Solutions There isn’t a chance in the world that is what he said. Citation please. |
Even if he means to do that, would he be stupid enough to admit it? |
That is about as fair as asking “When was the last time you beat your wife?” |
In a discussion of importing waste from Italy Mike Lee has said he’d support a ban on importing waste if Energy Solutions is exempted. How is that not acting in the interest of his client and not the people of Utah? He wanted an exemption tailor made for his client. |
I guess he is stupid enough to admit it. |
Mike Lee has said he’d support a ban on importing waste if Energy Solutions is exempted. That is not what he said. The article quotes him as saying “I don’t see a problem in taking a small amount of it in the interim period.” Nothing about a exemption for Energy Solutions. In any case, any law that made an exception for them would arguably be an unconstitutional bill of attainder. |
I would love to see the exact quote that caused the writer of the article to say this: while Lee said he would only support a ban if his law firm’s client were allowed to dispose of waste from Italy’s shuttered nuclear power program in Utah first. Technically he didn’t want a bill of attainder, but in practice that is exactly what he was proposing. And really, how could he as a candidate that was still representing them in a case over this issue get up there and advocate against them and in the interest of the public? Lucky for us this is a moot point for now, but wait until the next big plan emerges from Clive and their minions in congress scramble to do their bidding. And yes, I’ve taken the tour. The extended version. Not impressed. |
Anyone want to lay out a scenario of what tea party candidates would do to America? What would they build, what would they tear down or do away with? I’m curious, because while most Americans say they don’t like healthcare reform, when you get down to specifics, it turns out they do like it. The family who could never get health insurance for their child because he or she had a pre-existing condition…will they have that taken away? Just curious. |
anonymous, Democrats have tried to claim that everybody agrees with them for decades. I remember polls that used to claim that voters agreed with Mondale over Reagan when they were asked about specific issues. It’s the same old tired line that there’s something basically irrational about voting against Democrats, and the Republicans get votes by deception and by fooling people into voting for them against their own interest. If the Tea Party gets a voter mandate, the biggest difference it will make is in taxes — which is huge. Taxes in the USA have been too high since WWII, in spite of several corrective measures. It’s my hope that they repeal health care reform and the stimulus. Regarding pre-existing conditions: If you ask people “Do you think that people should be able to enter and exit the insurance pool at any point that is advantageous to them?” then you get a different sort of response from “Do you think that insurance should cover pre-existing conditions?” (Personally, I think that it’s a terrible idea, and I shudder at the notion that health care is a right, and most health care policy is driven by tear-jerker stories that involve “heroic” bald kids struggling with horrific diseases.) There’s a tradeoff involved in covering this. If people are going to be allowed to enter and exit the insurance pool at any point that is advantageous to them, this is going to increase the cost of insurance. I’m not saying that’s necessarily a bad thing. In fact, it seems like the sort of compromise that Americans seem willing to make, and there are a lot of Republicans who are for it. But you can have that without all of the other Obamacare nonsense. |
Most of the health care reform ideas are popular and correct some very difficult situations, the problem is that kind of thing always costs money. Lots of money. So the real question isn’t whether it is a good idea, but who and how do we pay for it? And the necessary admission that we may not be able to afford every good idea we have. That doesn’t make the idea bad. Politicians of all stripe always play the game of trying to separate as far as possible the recipient of the benefit from the folks who get stuck paying for it making cause and effect harder to identify. This ‘smoke and mirrors’ approach has convinced a majority of Americans that the government can continue to do provide them benefits and it isn’t costing them any money. I despair for the republic. |
If you want to know what the “Tea Party” folks would likely do if they achieved a strong political majority, just listen to Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor, Steve Forbes, Jim DeMint, and take a look at the websites of the Heritage Foundation and the CATO Institute. (1) Entitlement reform to make the programs sustainable in the long run |
1 – Nearly everyone except the AARP believes in entitlement reform. It is just how we get there that they differ on. 2 – Yeah, that’s exactly what they crucified Bennett for. 3 – Hey Al Gore wants to really simplify things. Eliminate all taxes except for a tax on carbon. He should be a Tea Party favorite. 4 – So we end up as dysfunctional as California! Brilliant! 5 – Traditional isn’t well defined here… 6 – I’m pretty sure that is the plan anyhow. Congratulations, you’ve advocated for what is about to happen. 7 – Simplicity sounds great. Reducing and simplifying regulation is part of what caused this most recent crisis. So let’s ensure another one! |
arJ, Unfortunately, we can’t effectively debate seven different issues, but in short: |
I should add that some (like Mr. Frank) say they want to shut down Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and replace them with on-budget programs to do the same thing, plus extensive new rent subsidies. Others on the left suggest taking Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac on (as is) indefinitely. A conservative alternative would have the federal government get out of the housing business completely. |
1 – I said people disagree on the specifics. 2 – You’re non-responsive to my point about Bennett. I think a lot of people on both sides now think the Bennett plan should have been given more consideration. 3 – Right, simple isn’t always better. 4 – I thought CA got where it was due to unfunded mandates from their insane proposition process. 5 – Yes! Let’s go back to the time when we weren’t a world power. Can we also adjust our military spending to 1914 levels? (Now I’m just being silly.) 6 – So GM will never be on its own again? That is shocking. 7 – Aren’t those regulations you just suggested? What bank would agree to that? Again, I think you’re somewhat unresponsive here. |
“Or even better require all banks to carry 100% reserves on deposits, as a matter of fiduciary responsibility.” If you want to bring the economy to a grinding halt, that’s a great proposal. Otherwise, not so much. |
“Democrats and Republicans both were too stupid to recognize this (still are)” This is the essence of the Tea Party platform: “Everyone else is either stupid or corrupt.” It’s a great attitude to have, especially if reality is not your thing. |
If you want to bring the economy to a grinding halt, that’s a great proposal No change that significant can be implemented overnight. The Bank of Amsterdam in the 17th century provides more than an adequate counterexample of the proposition that a thriving economy requires letting banks lend out _deposits_. Letting banks lend out loans and the proceeds of bank issued bonds, subject to investor risk (and corresponding due diligence) is an entirely different issue. “Everyone else is either stupid or corrupt” I never claimed that the majority of both major parties were “stupid” (let alone corrupt) with regard to politics in general, but rather with regard to the single issue of deregulating government guaranteed financial institutions. Paul Volcker, among others, agrees that Glass-Steagall should be re-instated, and that no government guaranteed institution should be allowed to be “too big to fail”. Banks like to claim that they are free market institutions. As long as they have a federal guarantee, they are nearer the opposite. As a consequence banking regulation is in an entirely different category from regulation of farmers and florists, for example. |
aRJ, the Bennett plan could be interesting, but it still amounts to a major federalization of health care regulation. Somebody on the side of the aisle that is universally in favor of having the federal government run anything and everything should take it up, and engage a new debate on the merits. I don’t know it in detail enough to say whether it would be any more sustainable than Medicare as we know it. Even better, some state should adopt the Bennett plan, and three or four years later, we will see how that worked out for them. |
Nice theme! It is so clean and clear. Thanks for sharing it. |