I completely agree with you.

Sterilization doesn’t lead to 26 years of future cost including childbirth for the insurance company. They aren’t here to help you, they’re here to make money. If there was a way to do it they’d only insure people that were guaranteed to be healthy until the day they die.

ESO, I don’t think playing down the universal appeal of genetic relation helps you move forward the cause of caring for others too. I am guessing that you want people to care about others as much as they do for their own siblings and children rather than caring about their own siblings and children as little as they might about other people who intersect their lives. A lofty notion like “the brotherhood of mankind” means nothing if mundane, garden-variety, born-to-the-same-mother brotherhood isn’t allowed a role in our minds.

John Mansfield–I am SURE I am not doing any favors to ANY causes–I am a poor ambassador. While I get why having a mini-me is a very attractive option, if it didn’t come naturally, I would have a hard time saying that getting a genetically linked family together justified all the money, pain, and effort it entailed. Would a family through adoption be any less fantastic?

There may be compelling reasons (including inspiration) why IVF is the best option for a specific couple, I certainly don’t want to make a blanket condemnation. The reasons I have heard some couples give for doing IVF, though, have been less than noble, IMO (I couldn’t love someone else’s kid/just wanted to see what our combination would look like/afraid to bring inferior genetics into the home, etc etc). Of course, the same can be said for many a naturally-conceived child, too.

ESO, you’re right! My son through adoption is fantastic. I adore him and the fruit of our own loins would not be loved any more than he is. I guess that mostly I’m just voicing discouragement with the whole fertility challenged concept. There are options for getting your family, but none of them are good. They all cost a fortune.

I think IVF is okay as long as the embryo is implanted in the egg-donor who is also going to keep the baby, or in the wife of the sperm-donor, when the sperm-donor and wife are going to keep the baby.

I just read of a situation that gave me pause about surrogacy, a closely related issue.

Tests in the 1st trimester indicated that a baby in a surrogate in Canada had Down’s symdrome. The contract with the biological parents stipulated that if the surrogate continued with the pregnancy against their wishes, the biological parents would not be financially responsible for pregnancy expenses or for raising the child. The surrogate was reluctant, but ended up aborting the baby.

http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/secondhandsmoke/2010/10/11/commercial-surrogacy-is-human-trafficking-biological-parents-to-birth-mother-abort-down-fetus/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1319273/Row-couple-discovered-unborn-child-Downs-want-abort–surrogate-carrying-foetus-disagrees.html

I am very grateful for Dr. Roberts incredible work. IVF is a very personal and difficult choice, but also an amazing miracle. There are a lot of other moral questions that you have to face, and a lot of judgmental people to deal with. But it has also been a blessing for our family – even with the ups (yay we’re pregnant) and downs (miscarriages, OHSS, no privacy, etc).

I think it is easy for someone who has never had to face some of these decisions to really not understand the complex emotions that are part of being infertile. It creates a lot of myths, like this one: “If you want a child to love, there are LOTS of them around.” Since 1973 the number of children placed for adoption has significantly decreased. The legalization of abortion has had a significant impact on the number of children available for adoption and the percentage of children born to never-married women placed for adoption. In 1973 9% of these children were placed for adoption, in 1995 that figure had dropped to 1%, and that is 1% of a smaller number of “unplanned pregnancies.”

Here is another myth debunked:

Infertility Myth: It’s easier and cheaper to adopt than to use fertility treatments. Couples who seek out fertility treatments instead of adopting are just being selfish.

Fertility Facts: Adoption isn’t as easy as they portray in the movies. Unlike Annie, you can’t just walk into an orphanage and pick a child to take home the same day.

There is a legal process to go through, a home study, and oftentimes, the adoptive mother has to choose your profile for you to get the child. The cost of adoption varies, starting at no cost up to $30,000, depending on what kind of adoption you pursue, and the entire process can take several months or years.

In addition, adopted parents also go through a range of emotional ups and downs along the way, as they wait to hear if and when they will get a child.

Adoption is a beautiful way to build a family, but it is not a simple choice. Even if a couple decides to pursue adoption, it does not take away the pain of not being able to have a child naturally. There is a grieving process that must be resolved first.

As for being selfish, the desire to have children is biological and deeply rooted. To call wanting a child of your own selfish is the same as calling the desire to have a place to live selfish. It’s not selfish, but merely human.

Adoption can be a beautiful thing and a wonderful way to build a family, but it is not easier than IVF.

#14 – my comment that says basically what you said is stuck in moderation. So I’ll just add an “amen” to your comments.

Olive,

Thanks for your contribution here. I agree with your comments. I think what ESO is talking about is older children. My life exp is that adopting older children is much more difficult parenting wise then adopting infants.

Some feel though its the right thing to do. One of my bball buddies just adopted three siblings who are 4-5-7. I think the Lord smiles upon him and his wife but that is a topic for another post.

I don’t think you can say there is some type of higher moral ground regarding adopting older kids vs. IVF or adopting infants

ESO, your strong feelings in favor of international adoption are an interesting juxtaposition with also having “kind of an icky feeling” regarding the Church’s Indian Placement Program, “thinking it paternalistic and all.”

If a woman wants to experience childbirth, that’s her right and her business. It’s easy to decide for others, but we each have our heartaches and needs. I’m glad for IVF as an alternative.

There’s no good solution to the problem of orphaned children in the US. But it’s not fair to decide another woman should adopt a 6 year old because society is messed up. Adopting a child older than 3 or 4 is not just a decision to be a parent. It’s a decision to take on a huge problematic situation and to decide that your life will be given over to a troubled child. There’s nothing wrong with knowing what you can and cannot handle.

I know of which I speak.

Oh boy, that’s the truth. They’re all cute as toddlers. I was just thinking last night how cute they are when they’re little and how unpleasant they are at 14. I don’t even want to live in a world with teenagers. I’m going to make Bill move away to New Zealand when Sarah’s “hypothetical” baby hits six. Leave while we al have good memories. Good point.

#24 I can’t even count how many people have said to me, “Why don’t you just adopt?” Sometimes followed by “At least then you’re guaranteed a baby and you don’t have to go through all the stress.”

After a failed adoption, I beg to differ.

ESO, most children in foster care are not available for adoption, and the goal of fostering children is generally reunification with their parents. Caring for foster children and/or adopting foster children or foreign-born “orphans”, all of whom have experienced trauma and loss and have special needs, is really not the same thing at all as raising a child from infancy, and is definitely not for everyone. It makes no sense to me to consider that an alternative to using fertility treatments to have a child. For people who choose to care for these special-needs children, I have nothing but the greatest respect. But again, it it NOT the same thing as raising a child from infancy and I do not think everyone is in a position to do it.

E–of course it is not THE SAME experience, I just think it is an important service and can lead to an eternal family relationship. I understand that foster kids are not available for immediate adoption, but they are available for loving. I have several friends who have fostered babies for years before they were adopted. I know it is not without drama and heartache, I just think it is callous of our society to pretend that these kids do not exist, which is exactly what we (collectively) do. And when people searching for children insist, again and again, that these kids are not family-material, it makes me very sad. Even if a kid is not with you forever, to love them for 6 months or 3.75 years is so so important for that child–it can absolutely change their world.

For his last seven years, my father lived with me. Each year he was a bit weaker in body and mind, and for the last couple, his capacity to care for himself was about that of a three-year-old. It was taxing to my family’s time and emotional strength.

There are plenty of sick old men in world, so why don’t I house one in my father’s empty room? The idea of doing so never even crossed my mind until this morning. I don’t love the world at large as I did my father, and I had the special duty that is a son’s.

I have recently done some research on IVF and it appears that IVF costs about 15K or so. So its really not more expensive then adoption

I am pretty much OK with people pursuing whatever route to parenthood they want. I do think though that adopting older kids is much more difficult due to the fact that the kids come with addl issues that were created by their previous situations. I should add though that many early church leaders brought children not their own into their households and that I feel that adopting older kids is clearly something that our HF smiles upon.

I really do see why people want their own biological kids or to adopt infants. I can’t see any reason why we should judge them for these desires.

32, “We found it to be the opposite. For our family, it was very easy. Adoption does not have to be hard.”

I really find myself wanting to hate you. Why was your adoption easy? I’d be happy to sign up for an easy adoption.

Ron- “Adoption does not have to be hard” means for years my late husband Mike and I were pooh-poohed when we asked about adoption. Everyone told us how “hard” it was. We instead found it to “not” be hard, because we were more than willing to choose to adopt a child who was: not an infant, not white, not American, and with a small handicap. Because of these factors, Hong Mei’s adoption took only one year to the month of when we filled out our first level of paperwork. I do not want others like us, who are willing to adopt internationally to think all adoptions are “too hard”.

Just imagine for me. Somewhere in the world is your child. They are the ones suffering in some god-forsaken orphanage. You will do anything to bring her/him home. Yes, lots of paperwork. SO? Yes, lots of money, but wIth the longer wait times, you have time to scrimp and save for it. Special needs. Big deal. My biological children all have small handicaps. Everyone of them would be special needs. Miss babyhood, missing sleep is more like it :)

Advantages to adoption. For me, pregnancy and birth, now that was hard! All the daily throwing up and headaches for 9 months, bed rest trying to prevent a premature baby, and incredible pain fear, and suffering during the birth when the epidural does not work. Instead I had a year of fun adoption classes, Chinese culture classes, a fun trip, and on our “Gotcha Day” we were given an adorable three year old who slept thru the night. Granted, she was also swearing at us in Chinese, knew how to smoke, snatched food off of people’s plates, and guarded her own food with the ferocity of a tiger, but hey, we were in love! :)

After a year of holding therapy, patience, good food and clean water, she gained ten pounds, learned to speak English well enough, love us and we all love her. I do not love her any less because she is not my DNA descendant. I love her with the same intensity I love my four biological children.

Hong Mei has enriched their lives as well. They all had the opportunity to attend her temple sealing. My younger kids know more about the temple than any of their peers. Unfortunately her sealing was after Daddy had died, but for us all to be in the temple together after that tragedy was healing for us. My other kids are profoundly aware not all children have parents, are loved, and are cared for. They have opened their hearts and developed patience for someone who initially was difficult to love.

Our kind of adoption is not for everyone, but for those of us who choose this route it is a wonderful way to build a family. Good luck to you Ron, I hope you and your wife are able to find a way to build your family.

JA – Thanks for sharing your perspective, but if your personal level of peace and righteousness is sufficient to label that experience as “not hard”, will you come visit me from the celestial kingdom after you’re translated?

I didn’t mean to say that adoption is too hard. Mostly, I was simply whining that infertility is too hard. If you can classify your experience as easy, then you can see why I say that none of the options are good.

I mean I guess you could say that our adoption was easy too. After we finally gave up (2 years later) on the idea of the church finding us a “cheap baby”. We contacted a full-service agency about a situation on their website, a caseworker called us a couple of days later and said they had this other situation, were we interested?, we agreed to have our profile shown on the new situation and 2 months later we brought home our son. On the surface that looks very easy, but that overlooks the two years we spent watching our phone, wishing it would ring with “the call”. That overlooks the crushing disappointment when our caseworker told us that my son’s birthmom picked the other family. (Sure glad they decided they didn’t want a once a year visit with the birthmom.) It overlooks the birthfather trying to overturn the adoption.

My point is simply that I wish there were choices for infertile people that didn’t cost a fortune or take forever.

I am in the process of adopting a child and I just want to clarify a few “myths” that have been said above.

1. My adoption process is completely FREE. Why? I am not using a private agency, I am adopting through the county (the same people that manages fostering)
2. It is not true that there are not enough children available for adoption, the majority of those children that are ready for adoption but haven’t been “chosen” stay in the foster system until they turn 18.