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Several years ago I worked in the legal office at a military installation in southern New Mexico. One of our new attorneys routinely spent the weekends in El Paso, Texas, which was about 2 1/2 hours away, since there wasn’t much for a young, single, professional black man to do in the rural town where the base was. It seemed like least one weekend a month, he would tell about one more experience of being pulled over while driving home in his shiny new F-150 for the offense of “DWB”–driving while black. The one time I actually saw this happen myself, the officer who pulled him over had called for backup. There were four cruisers with lights flashing surrounding his truck while he was calmly sitting in the cab, waiting for several of New Mexico’s finest to realize he was not a danger to himself or to anyone else. |
When I got off my mission in 2003 I bought a cheap Honda – a ’92 CRX. Without exaggerating, I’m pretty sure I was pulled over at least every other week (during the weeks I was in Utah) in that car. My wife – whom I was dating at the time – even got pulled over driving it (for the claimed offense of not having a front license plate – possibly valid, probably not). So in other words, I was pulled over around 10 times for DWM – without even being Mexican. I mentioned this to a cop that policed our town all growing up (known to many Utahns as “Robocop” or simply “the a**hole that speedtraps in Sardine Canyon by Mantua”) that I know very well having done a number of construction projects with him, and due to the fact that he’s a close friend of my dad’s. His response to my accusation that cops profile – “Of course we profile. Chances are much higher that a cheap, old car is breaking the law, so obviously we pay more attention to them.” Well, you can’t accuse him of not being honest. |
Racism is alive and well. I was acting as referee at a ward basketball game a few years ago along with another guy in my ward. There happened to be one black player on one of the teams and my fellow referee never called any fouls when the black player was fouled. Now in ward basketball, you can pretty much call a foul on every play if you want to, so I didn’t think too much about his restraint, except that he seemed to be calling plenty of fouls when other players got fouled. Well of course the black player began complaining about this, as anyone would, especially in ward basketball, and my fellow referee approached me and said, under his breath, “I’m going to punch that n_____.” I couldn’t believe it. I told him he needed to leave and I would referee the game the rest of the way without him, which I did. The whole experience really shook me. I had no idea there were still people who felt that way, and worse, expected that I would sympathize with them when they told me about it. Crazy. |
My son (who is Haitian) has had many experiences like this – even in Church. When he was at a Stake Dance, a mother came up to him when he was dancing with her daughter (fast dancing appropriately) and pulled her away. She had been dancing with others before that. When he was on the ward basketball team (all minorities), there were many times when the refs were clearly biased against our team and called a lot more fouls (many unjustified). So this occurs today. I often find myself doing things like this that make me very uneasy with my own feelings. For example, if I am walking to my car in a dark parking lot, I am much more nervous is there is a young teenager or two than if it is an older well-dressed person (race is irrelevant). |
#2 and the last anecdote in #4 suggest that it’s as much a problem of class as it is of race… |
I forgot to add that I soon bought a Pontiac Grand Prix – forest green. I owned that car for three times as long, and to my recollection I only remember getting pulled over once. 5 – it could be an issue of class . . . but I’m not convinced. I paid $1400 for the CRX and $1900 for the Grand Prix, a pretty small difference – and yet my treatment by the police was night and day. Also, in the context of my conversation with said police officer – there was an obvious undertone of race in the conversation. We both understood that he was talking about Mexicans when he referred to older cars. It was years ago, but I’m pretty sure the conversation started by me accusing cops of profiling my car because they thought I was Mexican. |
I think you get pulled over when you look and drive like a thug. Besides obvious blatant traffic violations. Even I in my Camry get pulled over for those. I have 2 bro-inlaws who are descended from BY. They are totally white and have lots of brushes with the law. They get pulled over monthly. If you ask them Cops will tell you that they develop a 6th sense over what cars on the road are driven by thugs and they are usually right. There is a racial/class/gender element to this as well. Its pretty complex |
As to the orignal post racism still exists. My experience with white folks having grown up in Chicago is that those that have lived in lower to middle class neighborhoods whose schools and neighborhoods have changed fron white to black are the most racist white people. Of course non whites can be equally as racist. Ask white kids who attend largely minority schools. |
I think my driving directly after the mission was the least “thuggish” of all driving I’ve ever done. I was pretty clean cut myself. Also, to my recollection, I didn’t get pulled over for traffic violations that would normally get a person pulled over. I got pulled over 3 times in two weeks for front license plate violation (I finally got it put on, but seriously, 3 times in two weeks? For a front license plate??) I got pulled over once for drunk driving (for which I wasn’t showing any signs, he just didn’t have a better excuse. No, I hadn’t been drinking.). A couple times for speeding (never 10+ mph over). And various times for things like “back license plate not lit”, failure to signal for 3 seconds, etc. But sure bbell, cops are great at picking out “thugs” and are usually right, whatever that means. |
How do you know they are usually right? |
As a multi-racial family who has lived on several continents, we have enough racial anecdotes for a volume or two. We have learned a few things. First of all what we call racism in the US pales in comparison to what happens in most of the world. There are some countries that still require that race/ethnicity be printed on official documents for goodness sakes. Second of all, the assumption of racism can be as poisonous as racism itself. Projecting bias onto a situation that isn’t blatantly, racially charged is a recipe for self-defeating, self-damaging behaviors and habits. We have tried to teach our kids a few things to deal with racism. One, always be aware of how you present yourself, comportment tends to override race when making first impressions. Two, pick your battles carefully. And we have exposed them to as many cultural experiences as possible, which gives them the confidence to easily glide from one environment to another and provides them with an exotic pedigree that can effectively disarm even the most myopic dolt. |
One of my shooting buddies is a cop and he says that after a few years on the job you can pick out thugs on the road pretty easily. He says the percentage is plus 70% that when they do a “thug stop” in other words they see somebody they think is a thug they will plus 70% of the time have warrants, or lack insurance or lack proper registration etc That is just his exp. They are not pulling over black moms in mini vans. Its young males. Lots of times with multiple males with multiple warrants My thug white bro in laws get pulled over all the time in late model cars. Guess what? They usually have warrants. This is of course all anecdotal |
MAC, awesome. Myopic dolts everywhere, take notice. |
I’m just glad that a cop’s “sixth sense” is adequate probable cause. Be sure to thank your buddy for me for defending our legal rights. |
I have 2 bro-inlaws who are descended from BY. They are totally white and have lots of brushes with the law. Do they have the beards? That’s a sure sign of thuggishness. :) |
Cops have no business stopping people based on their “sixth sense.” Even if it turns out most of the time that there are outstanding warrants on the person. Some people may not mind getting stopped just because of the way they look or the car they drive, but it’s not legal, and we all lose when cops start cutting corners instead of using probable cause. |
I once had a hard time getting service in a strip club in los angeles even though I was throwing around huge amounts of money. I assumed that it was because I’m black, but I later discovered that they were discriminating against me just because I’m chairman of the RNC. |
My sixth sense tells me the cops that are pulling over “thugs” based on a hunch are asses trying to fill a quota and are picking the group that is least likely to file a complaint.. |
17 – awesome. |
David, I might have missed it but did you call the waiter on it? I would have left. I haven’t eaten at Denny’s since I heard years ago they did something like that. My Tongan friends report being pulled over regularly. They’re resigned to it. I’ve taken to playing Mormon Tabernacle CD’s to help me get in a Zen mood on my way to work. I wonder if that would make a difference if I got pulled over. |
annegb: MoTab =/= zen Try this instead: |
And yes, it would make a difference. With enough of this music, you could do a vulcan mind meld on the poor cop. |
My BIL keeps his registration/insurance in a book of mormon in his car. Given the high proportion of Mormons in the police force in Mesa, Arizona, he gets out of a lot more tickets than he used to before this genius idea. I imagine mo-tab might have the same effect. (depending on where you live) |
A study that may be relevant… |
I’m not dumb enough to think that racism doesn’t exist. But I do have a problem with racial minorities who automatically chalk-up any degree of mistreatment to racism. My minority FIL comes to mind. Any time he gets lousy customer service, he complains of racism. I’m like, really? When I try to reason with him and tell him that us white folk get lousy service all the time, he refuses to believe it. “They have to be racist!” he always exclaims, “there’s no other explanation!” One time he entered a busy restaurant and waited 5 minutes to be seated, and then got impatient and left. Why? “Racists!” he said. Could it be that there was a problem in the kitchen the host was attending to? Could it be that a few people called off from work that day and they were short-staffed? Nope. It was racism. Come on. Racism exists. That doesn’t mean everybody is a racist. |
I think this study is interesting and a bit revealing. There is a lot of racism that happens subconciously (also, there is a lot of police profiling that happens subconciously). |
I stopped eating at Denny’s because I read they refused to serve a group of black people. David, why didn’t you guys walk out or get in the waiter’s face? I definitely hope you didn’t leave a tip. The police here in our little southern Utah town definitely profile. My Tongan neighbors routinely get stopped. They tell me they’re so careful, they never speed or run a red light. And they sit quietly when stopped and obey every command. Infuriates me. I got stopped by a policeman in a speed trap in our community. I’d come to a complete stop (as I always did) but there’s about a half-mile point out in the boondocks where the speed changes from 45 to 25. I reamed him out good. It was 11:30 at night; he was just sitting out there waiting for speeders. He was stupid enough to comment “I usually catch people running the light.” Boy, he lost my respect. That’s neither here nor there. I’m probably not stopped more often when I should be because I’m a middle aged white woman driving a nice SUV. That really sucks. On the other hand, I’d hate to be a policeman. But that waiter–that restaurant. I’d be picketing. |
I got pulled over once while in high school, I was in fact speeding. Got off with a warning. My brother inherits the car, and makes a single change: he added a Grateful Dead sticker to the rear window. Suddenly he’s getting pulled over all the time, several times the cops ask to search the vehicle claiming to smell pot. I can assure you that my brother was not smoking pot or anything else. However I get the sense that some cops might have a less than accurate thug-meter. |
29–some RM friends of mine were returning from camping trip in a beat-up old Camry with an environmentalist bumper sticker (I think it was “Wild Utah,” though it might have been something else). They got stopped, and the cop told them it smelled like smoke in the car, and he wanted to search for pot. (Of course it smelled like smoke–and probably BO too, as they’d just been camping). The cop also made the comment that the bumper sticker was an indicator of potheads… |
Sorry–that was a response to 28. |
Man…. I have a story about stupid cops… and stereotypical bad guy vehicles… so I was at Fort Hood with the 1st cavalry division this was in like 2003 I believe… anyways I went to California one weekend and bought this 1966 Econoline van… had this crazy propane set up in it and a 289 v8 and c4 tranny which is why I wanted it, already had a v8 in it and it didn’t come with driver or passenger seats, hadn’t been registered for like 5 years or so… I hauled it back to Texas and parked it in the barracks and was doing some work on it, took the propane set up off, caught it on fire once, had the intake manifold off the engine and stuff, still no driver or passenger seats in it, a bunch of empty beer cans in it and some miscellaneous tools. We were gearing up for Iraq around that time so they were cleaning out the hangar where I worked, so I grabbed some stuff they were ditching and one of the one of the things I snagged was an empty 55 gallon drum I figured I might need it for used motor oil and what not, so I threw that in the back of my van until I’d have a chance to take it to my storage shed… well not long after I did that, I woke up one morning got ready to head out to Brigade HQ to do staff duty for the day and walked downstairs to the parking lot and the whole parking lot is blocked off, MP cars on either end, they all seemed to be looking at my van… I could tell something was up, so I figured i’d get the ball rolling, walked over to my van opened the door and popped open the glove box and got a cigarette lighter out of it… well the MPs all went nuts they were like “Is this your van?” and i’m like “yeah” and turns out some “hero” that was doing PT in the area of the barracks parking lot spotted my 66 Econoline van, complete with 55 Gallon drum in the cargo area and thought to himself, “this is my chance to save the day! I just spotted a terrorist suicide bomb van!” and called it in… So there was MPs and some other cop with a blue uniform and a couple of guys in civilian clothes I was pretty snotty to them because the whole thing seemed stupid to me, I told them there was nothing illegal about having an empty 55 gallon drum in the back of a broken down van and one of the civilian guys made a Timothy McVeigh reference, they asked me if I thought it was funny and I told em yeah. The civilian dude informed me that the guy in the blue uniform was the “equivalent” of a lieutenant to which I sarcastically responed “well, Lieutenant what are you gonna do about the situation?” They sent one of the MPs in to check out the drum and sure enough… no bomb… really spoiled their day I could tell… That wasn’t working so one of them piped up and said we could get your for intentions to drink and drive because of the empty beer cans, to which I pointed out that there was no intake manifold or carburetor on the engine and no seats either. Then they said they could get me for larceny for having the 55 gallon drum that I got from behind the dumpster, so I told them I found it in the road and picked it up so no one would run into it. All they could do was tell me to get the van off post until it was registered. My platoon sergeant came out to the barracks at the end of the standoff to see what the heck was going on but he just thought the whole situation was ridiculous too. Gave me the rest of the day off to take my van to my storage shed… Stupid cops walked away empty handed… I told them before they left, “hey the terrorists in Back to the Future were driving a volkswagen, not a Ford get it right next time” I didn’t really say that… but I should have… |
Has an interracial couple ever been depicted in any LDS church publication? Ever? |
The majority never sees racism in their society. Being majority means that you are not treated different, and when you tell stupid jokes about any other racial group, that’s not really racism, right? How about when everything goes well, until it turns out you’re a member of whatever minority group happens to be not so popular (which is any of them, usually)? Years ago as a missionary I ran into a bunch of members, who said they stopped going to church when you started having [dark-skinned people] speaking at church. Ouch. That really shocked me, as I was still young and naive. These days, I see people giving dirty looks to people, who come to church without a white skin. So no, I’m not assuming racism against myself, but others who look different (I agree that assuming racism against yourself can create an attitude problem where you start seeing it even where it doesn’t exist). This all started when I as a kid noticed that my mom was a racist, when she told me not to befriend minority kids. |
Chino @ 32 Page 18 of the Nov. 2010 Ensign http://lds.org/churchmagazines/EN_2010_11_08___09211_000_009.pdf |
MAC – good find – how did you find it? |
Devyn – I just remember seeing it. Here is a better one, the current MP in the West Indies is profiled with his family. http://lds.org/Static%20Files/PDF/Magazines/NewEra/English/2009/NE_2009_02_09___04242_000_009.pdf |
I remember seeing the second one, but I could not tell you where I saw it. You are my hero for the day! |