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I know enough about family law to know one of the main reasons people have prenups: those on their second marriage (or if we’re talking Donald Trump or Newt Gingrich, third) will often do prenups to make sure their money goes to their kids from a previous marriage instead of to the current spouse when they die. It’s not a divorce issue–it’s a death issue. And it’s done not to protect the individual, but to protect the individual’s children. |
When my grandmother was sealed there was an agreement between her and her husband that their assets would remain separate, for the sake of the heirs from earlier marriages. I think it also gave her plausible deniablility when it came to ownership of certain artwork that she considered unbearably tacky. I don’t know if there was a signed agreement or not, but it was effectively a pre-nup. |
Thanks MAC. I can see how a second marriage could involve a pre-nup. I am going to edit my post to only reference first marriages. |
Tim, It seems that those objectives (that of protecting property for individuals’ children) could be accomplished just as easily with well-drafted wills and waivers of elective share. |
It is difficult to figure out what a pre-nup should cover when neither of you have any real assets and neither of you know what your income will be and neither of you know how many children you will have and how much time either of you will be out of the workforce. Neither my husband nor I were sure about our majors when we married. |
As an attorney, i would never recommend a premarital agreement for young people who are just starting out. Mormon or not, it makes no sense to spend the money to draft an agreement when there are no major assets. And actually, it is a divorce issue. Issues related to death can be handled with estate planning documents like wills and trusts. Premarital agreements tell you what happens in the case of divorce, not death. |
The only time a young couple might want a premarital agreement is when one has significant assets from family and the family wants to make sure that, in case of divorce, there is some certainty about how much will go to the spouse for property division and support. Agreements like that would create a level of comfort for family-owned businesses and other family assets, knowing that, if a divorce occurs, the amount a spouse would get would be the amount in the agreement, not a share of family estates or businesses. |
I sometimes prepare pre-nup agreements for my clients. They are useful only when there are significant assets owned by one or both spouses. They have equal usefulness for both divorce and death scenarios. Although estate planning documents ultimately control the disposition on death, a pre-nup is also needed to bind one spouse with an enforceable “contract to make a will” since estate planning documents can be changed at any time. And, although a pre-nup seems useful in the event of divorce, some states (including my own) limit this by setting aside their spousal and child support provisions for example, since there is a strong preference that those issues be decided at the time rather than years in advance. So, I would agree that young LDS couples do not often need a pre-nup if neither spouse owns significant assets. In cases where a spouse does have assets, I can imagine a scenario where it is an inherited family business interest and that spouse’s family may insist on a pre-nup. |
I see that MCQ adroitly described the family business issues above, which is the most common case for a pre-nup in middle class couples. |
To address an issue raised by bbell in the OP, I think it’s probably true that there is a prejudice against premarital agreements in Mormon culture, at least in the case of first marriages. Because of the presumption that a temple marriage is eternal, Mormon couples often do not elect to have a premarital agreement in the absence of serious family pressure or some other imperative. I have known a few couples that really could have benefitted from a PMA and, in the absence of one, ended up having a very messy divorce. PMAs do not guarantee an easy divorce, because they can always be challenged, but in many cases they make property division issues much easier. |
Of course, that sentiment is not unique to Mormons: http://movieclips.com/vg9Lo-intolerable-cruelty-movie-doyle-eats-the-prenup/ |
I think they ought to make some sort of pre-nup a standard part of a marital contract, renewed every five years or so. That would reduce the stigma and help protect any resulting children, mitigate the uncertainty. (I’m only partially speaking tongue-in-cheek.) |
I’ve worried that I will die before Bill (I also worry that I won’t), he’ll remarry and our kids won’t get anything when he dies. Although I ponder writing them out of the will every once in awhile. So, DCL, if our wills say that if we predecease each other, our assets go to our kids, and suppose he remarries, but doesn’t change the will, assets held in Bill’s name would go to our kids, right? And if the beneficiary to his insurance policy is our executor if I die and he never changes that, the kids get the money. Which is kind of sad for his new wife. I may or may not be happy with that conclusion depending on which of the women currently breathing down my neck lusting after my husband he marries if I die. No problems if he dies before me. I’ve been married enough times already. |
My parents threw a fit when they discovered my brother was signing a prenup with his fiance (his first marriage, her second) I didn’t seen the problem, but perhaps this is a generational thing? Also, the way they found out was illegal, Mormon culture trumped confidentiality. |
Wow. Sue the attorney and report him to the state bar. Poor form. I remember a discussion in a bioethics course at BYU where most of the students (mostly pre-med and pre-dent) would have reported a soon-to-be-married-in-the-temple woman to religious authorities if they found out in their medical exam that she was pregnant. So I can’t say I’m surprised Mormon culture trumps confidentiality in real life. |
What exactly did they throw a fit about? |
“Sue the attorney and report him to the state bar.” I didn’t see anything that said it was the attorney who was at fault here, Tim. Perhaps it was the brother’s fiance? |