I can’t “rejoice” for the death of anyone, personally. I think one of the most powerful messages of the BoM is to fight for the right reasons, and when we delight in bloodshed, we’re missing the mark.

I can’t view whoever has the conviction to do Osama’s temple work as a fool.

I won’t get into whether “fool” is the appropriate term, but anybody, other than a direct descendant, who does bin Laden’s temple work would be violating Church policy. I think we should follow the brethren on this one.

They should put a filter into the computer systems that catches any possible spelling of his name. It would be a huge embarrassment if his work were done.

Forget about bin Laden’s temple work. When his one-year anniversary comes up, the temples will still be too busy sealing Elizabeth Taylor to all her husbands over and over.

MCQ,
Who started this conflict? If it was the radical muslims, then their POV is a correct rationale for who started the fight. Yes, they use the religious warfare rhetoric to motivate and recruit, but if that is why they attack us, then that is the reason for the conflict.
At the worst, we are guilty of taking sides in a local civil war (Kuwait vs. Iraq) on the side of previously allied interests. This is their best rationale for attacking us long after the war was settled. They were not long-standing allies of Iraq or occupied Kuwait and have not made this claim very vocally.
The primary claim that OSB made was that our troops were stationed in the same country as the two holy cities. Any Christian leader who made a similar claim, would be calling for the expulsion of muslims from Palestine, and Jordan for sure, and perhaps Syria and Lebanon. If that were to happen, would you blame the Jordanians for some non-religious slight that mildly increases the casus belli?

If this war has been all about killing bin Laden, DKL, then it has been a waste of time resources and a huge waste of human life. No matter how evil, no one guy is worth that. Fortunately, the reality is that we have been working toward a number of objectives, only one of which is the capture or killing of bin Laden.

I’m glad we got him. Check that box and move on. Celebration over.

Yesterday I announced in a work meeting, “did you guys hear that Obama died?” and there was a pause and I realized my gaffe at the same time everybody else got it. Wow, so confusing.

I was just thinking, what if Obama really is a Muslim plant and his popularity was waning and so they gave up Osama so that Obama could get re-elected? In the long run, Osama’s death isn’t all that big a deal. Jihad will still go on.

It’s just me watching too much tv, guys, don’t make anything of it. It would make a good movie.

Bottom line, I’m glad he’s dead, but I ain’t about to dance in the streets celebrating anybody’s death. Unless it’s my own.

Before you Muslim bash I suggest that you read the August 2000 issue of the Ensign and in particular James A Toronto’s “A Latter Day Pespective on Muhammad.” I could not find one Prophet or General Authority who agreed with DKL.s vision of Islam

Should we condemn all Christians because of Haun’s Mill? Should we denuniate all Mormons because of Mountain Meadows?

Bin Laden’s terrorist cult is part of the Church of the Devil

And he was utterly convinced that the United States is The Great Satan. He didn’t say, unless I am mistaken, that from its inception the US has always been The Great Satan, but only that we have become such as a result of the actions of our government in the middle east.

You may believe that the guy was an utter fruitcake to believe what he believed, but I’m sure he would have been glad to express similar views about your beliefs.

Why was he wrong?

Mark N: haven’t you read his twitter feed? @osamainhell He can tell you himself why he was wrong.

Just as one man’s troll is another man’s reasoned argument, so is one man’s world superpower another man’s terrorist cult.

I’m perfectly willing to discuss the actions of Al-Qaida if we also get to discuss the actions of the United States government meddling in the affairs of other nations and why it might result in terrorist cults having a desire to dish it out to the citizens of the US.

MCQ: I do have a Twitter ID, but I rarely use it. Not being one who carries a smart phone, or any cell phone at all for that matter, I guess I’ve missed out on OBL’s missives from hell.

annegb,

Don’t feel too badly about the Obama/Osama slip up. Here’s a headline that is live right now at CNN.com:

” CIA boss expects release of Obama pics “

It was totally worth the resources to go after Bin Laden even though he’s just one guy. It sends a big loud message to any terrorist or somebody thinking about becoming a terrorist of the extent the US will go to make sure you don’t succeed. This is how you eradicate these warped ideologies. Their movements will lose steam when they realize they can’t win.

And I’m sure Al Zawahiri is crapping his pants right now.

Mark N, the reason why the victory of the West over radical Middle-Easterners is so completely assured is that the West is cloaked in the safety of the technology that science provides — in spite of the frequently antagonistic relationship between Christianity and science. So yes, we use it to kill them before they kill us.

It’s true that bin Laden and his ilk think that the US evil, much like the US thinks that bin Laden is evil. It’s the nature of evil that it distorts people’s moral sense. Read Main Kampf: Hitler thought the Jews were evil. If you want to view the backward and abortive culture of bin Laden’s followers as the moral equivalent to the civilization that has done more for Muslims than any other culture in the world, then be my guest.

Pehaps?

“So, when 9/11 happened, did God deliver us into Osama’s hands?”

I think so. The Bible says God used Assyria and Babylon to punish Israel for their sins. The Book of Mormon says God used the Lamanites to punish (scourge) the Nephites for their sins.

So could God have used Al-queda to punish the US for our collective sins? What are our collective sins? Maybe widespread adultery, fornication, pornography, and abortion. Among the major sins of Israel that are mentioned in the Bible was their widespread adultery and child sacrifice. Elective abortion is pretty close to child sacrifice, just a matter of a few weeks.

You might say that the people who died on 9/11 weren’t necessary all adulterers and abortioners, but then I’d say that in the Bible and Book of Mormon that when collective sins are punished, the innocent suffer along with the guilty. Whole towns or cultures were killed, captured or wiped out, including innocent children, not just the individual adult sinners.

God used the “bad guys” (Assyrians, Babylonians, Lamanites) to punish people in the scriptures, so why couldn’t he have used (or still be using) Al-queda to punish us?

We’re still suffering because of our sins and because of Al-queda too, because we’re going into debt to pay for this war on terror, we’ve suffered loss of freedoms (now there’s a strong Book of Mormon theme: “captivity”) due to the Patriot Act and more, and we’ve literally suffered humuliation and sexual assault at the hands of TSA.

So yeah, I’d say God has used Al-queda to punish us (collectively) for our (collective) sins. And just like in the scriptures, a lot of innocent (and even “less guilty”) people are suffering right along with the guilty.

“It does appear that the religion of Islam either champions violent and evil behavior or attracts people who do.”

Actually, neither. You’re basing your view of the religion on a small minority of backwards people who get all the publicity. That’s typical, but if you speak with muslims in this country, or study the religion generally, there’s nothing about it that is necessarily violent or sexist. There are just some extremists who interpret it that way. But you could say that about almost any religion.

I don’t know if you’re right mcq. But I think some of the proof is in the pudding. They seem to be a violent bunch. Not in America, at least collectively, but around the world? You want to go live in Indonesia or the Philippines (pardon spelling there)? It’s not just a few people who are sworn to kill violently. It’s a lot. How many religions today are like that?

it’s perception, annegb. I know people who have lived in Indonesia and the Philipines. my neighbor just returned from being mission president in Indonesia. He says the people are wonderful and peaceful and Islam is widely misunderstood. This is the same thing I have heard from everyone I personally know who has lived among Muslims or studies their religion in depth. I’m not saying that there are not violent Muslims. clearly, there are. and there are obviously some extremist Muslim leaders whose interpretation of the Koran condones violence. But these are the exceptions, not the rule

I agree completely. I have lived/traveled in Muslim countries and have had Muslim supervisors/colleagues and even roommates.

But I don’t believe that the misunderstanding can be blamed solely on discrete violent events.

Until Muslim defenders can be more honest and open about the issues in Islamic societies they really can’t complain too much about being misunderstood. Talibé, Darfur, FGM, Theocratic oppression and Islam as political tool, these need to be addressed.

Consider the recent and ongoing protests in the Middle East. I think you would find a large segment of populations of Islamic countries (Iran is a great example) that have a real problem with the way that Islam is being used to socially and politically oppress. I would rather stand with those who would challenge those real and more relevant impacts of modern Islam than worry about the vague misunderstandings of portions of some Western populations.

In short, Islam has more than enough apologists, maybe so many that they are shouting down, intimidating, oppressing and even killing the people who would save them from themselves.

Not that long ago our family ate in a cafe overlooking the Djemaa el Fna, which is an amazing place. Less than two weeks ago that same cafe was blown up by Islamic extremists, killing 16. When our kids see photos of the tables where they sat land ate laying twisted in puddles of blood, it isn’t something you dismiss as a misunderstanding.

The issue is not blaming or absolving entirely, but where to draw the line, which is a very complex problem.

Repeating platitudes about the “religion of peace” is no less inane that the opposite position.