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| Sunday, May 19, 2013 |
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Can you change the abbreviated term to something that doesn’t resemble DKL’s name? Took me awhile to realize you weren’t talking about him. |
It is a sad case on many levels as you lay out. I agree that if the US system gets this he could be in trouble. Of course, we have let the guilty go previously (see Simpson OJ) |
I have been following this case closely as it is astonishing that he could be so stupid. This is a guy that was widely assumed to be the next president of France. It’s impossible to overstate the alarm this has caused in France for them to see this guy in handcuffs and perp-walked to jail in New York. The French judicial system would never do that with a guy like this. He is said to be on suicide watch. It’s hard to imagine what he was thinking. To pull something like this in New York is beyond stupid. I think you’re right that there is little doubt that he is guilty, but obviously it still has to be proved in court. Even if he is convicted, the charges are not rape, but sexual assault and attempted rape. I doubt that a conviction on those charges will result in anything close to life in prison. Remember that, in most cases, judges do the sentencing, not juries. If he is convicted, he will serve several years, but he will get out. It is also possible that some sort of plea deal will be worked out prior to any actual trial. You can bet that the French embassy is working on just that sort of thing right now. I don’t think justice would be served by such a deal, but where there are no witnesses and a conviction depends entirely on the victim’s testimony (and DNA evidence?) it wouldn’t be surprising if a deal happened. The real surprise in this case is how UNsurprised several associates of this guy were. Apparently, he has been called “the great seducer” in the French press for years because of his behavior as a womanizer. He has also been accused of sexually harassing women in the past. He is apparently a guy who thinks his station in life entitles him to take what he wants sexually. There is a certain part of the French culture that tacitly supports this view. In America, not so much. There has been some hand-wringing in the French press about whether they should have seen this coming and been more on top of this guy’s behavior. The one good thing that may come out of this is that French people may finally become a little less willing to look the other way when it comes to the personal lives of their political leaders. The French have traditionally been very tolerant of affairs, but even they draw the line at rape. |
I am also repulsed by the French reaction to this crime. I hope that if he is guilty (as it appears he is, in spades), that he dies in prison. It does seem that Americans are far more committed to equal justice than many Europeans are, but there is also a history of protecting powerful sex offenders among some of our elites in the US (Bill Clinton. Al Gore. Arnold Schwarzenegger.) So we should not be complacent about our own justice system. |
He will not die in prison, folks. He didn’t murder anyone. At most he will get 5-10 years and will be out in 4-6. More likely he will cut a deal. |
I have a comment in moderation. |
The European elite reaction will (is already?) be coming to America soon. It’s based on a swinger-sex lifestyle pursued by many elites there and here and trickling down the ranks. That 33% of Berlin students think prostitution is something personally (potentially) viable for them, shows the approach to sex. It doesn’t mean they agree with rape, and I don’t think those French elites do. But rather sometimes sex is just something you go through, and it’s no big deal if no harm was committed. |
MCQ, Sorry your coment got stuck in moderation. There are some very strict sentencing guidelines on sexual assault charges in NY. If he gets convicted of the more serious charges he is looking at serious time. Like 15-20 years. He is old enough that he could spend the rest of his natural life in prison. |
Won’t happen, bbell. Even if he is sentenced to 15-20, which is unlikely, he will not serve that whole term. No one serves their whole sentence unless they do very bad things in prison or they are sentenced to life without parole. DSK will be out in less than 10 years even if he is convicted. |
I don’t know the ins and outs of the assault, but don’t the charges reflect the orifices he violated rather than the extent of assault? Don’t know. I just thought that maybe if he did not perpetrate vaginal rape, that is how he is avoiding that charge. I agree that it is unlikely he will die in prison; I just hope his post-prison life is a sad shadow of how he has heretofore expected to retire. All I can say is: way to go violated maid. I am so happy that she reacted as she did by immediately reporting this and following through with a charge. I cannot imagine how hard that would be for an African immigrant Musilm single mom–SO many factors that could lead to distrust of authority, unwillingness to make this public, and fear for her family. I suspect that the fact that she is an African and a muslim has contributed to the French reaction–had she been some blonde college student who reported this, it may have been a more sympathetic reaction. |
ESO, from what I have read, there was no rape. He apparently forced her to perform a sex act that did not include intercourse. I’ll let you figure out what that might be. He wasn’t expected to retire anytime soon, he was expected to be president of France. You can assume that will not happen now. I agree that racism and classism is playing a part in the reaction to the allegations. But most people who are not biased believe the charges because it is part of a pattern of behavior with DSK. There are some conspiracy theorists who are saying that the maid was a plant by his political opponents, who are attempting to capitalize on his reputation by paying a maid to say things that are untrue. I doubt very much that story is going to fly. |
DSK was just granted bail. I suspect that he is going to slip out of the country to France and become Roman Polanski’s sidekick before his trial. A man with his means can simply arrange for this to happen. The defense attorney’s described him as an honorable man who would never skip out on bail. I find this idea that he is honorable to be laughable. MCQ what do you think of a civil lawsuit by the maid against DSK? Should she wait for a while? Or will DSK simply move his assets out of the country? |
I don’t know what assets DSK has in this country to begin with. I suspect they are fairly limited. If he does have such assets, the giant sucking sound you hear is the prompt removal of them. I think a civil lawsuit against him should await the verdict in the criminal trial, since the proof is much the same and she will be able to use the same evidence gathered by the state without having to do it at her own expense. No matter what though, a civil case against a guy like DSK is going to be a very long and very expensive affair. I’m not that surprised that he made bail. There’s no place he can hide because he’s too famous. The only reason Polanski got away with it for so long is because France took the position that there were irregularities in his trial and they protected him. If DSK doesn’t show up for trial there will be hell to pay. This incident has probably already cost him the presidency of France and his current job with the IMF. France will not be able to protect him. He may flee to some third-world hidey hole, but that’s risky because its tantamount to an admission of guilt. The only people who are still on his side are those who believe he was set up for a fall by his political opponents. If he runs, he will lose all support and will become an international fugitive. Before he risks that, he will try to cut a deal quietly or, if there’s no DNA evidence, he will try to beat the rap, because the trial will come down to his word against hers. Guys like him always believe their word should be as good as gold. |
If this goes to trial it’s going to be the trial of the century, that’s for sure. Think OJ, but with press from Europe all over the place. It will be a three ring circus. |
This article is illuminating, as are the comments to it. Amazing. http://www.tnr.com/article/against-the-current/88598/strauss-kahn-levy-daniel-badinter-IMF |
“In addition to the $1 million bail, the judge demanded that Strauss-Kahn post an additional $5 million insurance bond and that the French politician agree to house arrest and 24 hour monitoring. As Strauss-Kahn left court for another night in jail, he blew kisses to his wife and daughter who were in the courtroom. The grand jury, which heard testimony Wednesday from his accuser, a 32-year-old chamber maid, gave the go ahead for Strauss-Kahn to be tried for allegedly forcing the women to submit to oral sex. He is also accused of attempted rape. As the grand jury returned its indictment, Strauss-Kahn, 62, who was one of the most influential men in global finance before his arrest, shuffled into a courtroom in a gray suit to request bail. The man who had been a contender to be the next president of France was deemed a flight risk and denied bail earlier this week. Since Monday, he has been in protective isolation and on suicide watch in a 11 foot by 13 foot cell at New York’s notorious Riker’s Island jail. His lawyers initially proposed a $1 million bail package that was rejected by the court. Under a newly approved bail package, Strauss-Kahn will still pay the $1 million, but he will also be confined to a New York City residence, where he will be monitored around the clock by a private security firm and an electronic bracelet.” He’s not going back to France. He’s staying in New York. |
One of the news shows (sorry, can’t remember which) reported that he sodomized the woman. |
Sodomy is a broad legal term that covers a lot of things. In this case, what it means is that he forced her to perform oral sex, before apparently was trying to rip her underwear off when she escaped. I have another comment in moderation. |
That’s stupid. It’s a stupid legal description. Sodomy is not a catch all phrase. I would hate to be sodomized. But when I read a man sodomizes a woman, I don’t think of oral sex. Why do they do that? Aren’t you proud of me for not mentioning a former president in the context of this discussion? |
“I would hate to be sodomized.” Picky, picky, annegb. Can’t you at least give the guy a chance to win you over with the right kind of music and a nice dinner? I didn’t say it was a catch-all, but there are a lot of variations when it comes to sex acts and the legal definition of sodomy for purposes of criminal statutes generally means any sexual contact between the genitals of one person and the mouth or anus of another person. That potentially includes a lot of things but the usual meaning is either oral or anal sex. In the case we’re discussing, the allegation is that he forced her to have oral sex. |
MCQ, Are all your comments out of moderation? I could not find another one. I see he is being released and will be under house arrest. I hope there is a team of NYPD guys assigned to watch him. This perp is going to bail out of the US if he can ASAP. See Polanski, Roman |
Here’s the thing about comments in moderation. If you use terms commonly used to describe sexual assault the filter is going to grab it. Let us know and we’ll do our best to fish it out. I wish that the bayesian filter would learn who our users are and let them say what they want. In practice you want your regular commenters to get away with stuff that your first time commenters can’t. |
i’ve been listening to the news reports and I find it appalling that as President of the IMF he’s was only given 1 million dollars bail. given his net worth he should have been forced to pay a hell of alot more than that. that amount is like pocket money to him |
Yeah, thanks, bbell, someone already rescued it. He’s going to be monitored by a private security company. I’m glad of that because it would be bad to take cops off the street just to watch his sorry ass. Polanski didn’t have an electronic ankle bracelet tracking device on, and when he ran off to France he wasn’t nearly as famous as DSK is. I really don’t think it’s going to be possible for DSK to run. And if he does, it won’t be politically possible for France to help him. |
diane, he also had to buy a 5 million dollar insurance bond. That wouldn’t cost him 5 million, but he would have to secure it with at least 5 million in assets. When judges set bail, they take into account things like net worth and available cash. DSK has a high net worth but 1 million in cash plus a 5 million dollar bond is a lot. |
“Who made that a legal term?” Most of our antiquated legal terms for sexual acts are carry-overs from the British common law. There’s a whole slew of sexual terms found in many states’ criminal codes that no one every uses anymore. “Buggery” comes to mind. It’s akin, I think, to the way our YM and YW manuals still use the word “necking,” even though no one under the age of 80 has ever used that term in serious conversation. When I first heard it, I had a picture in my head of two giraffes canoodling. |
Sodomy comes from the French. Buggery is British, but I have not hear that word used much in America. The British use it constantly as an expletive. Maybe we could try to get it started. It seems preferable to a lot of other swear words to me. |
MCQ, I slays thought that the origin was Hebrew from the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. If the origin os more recent and they changed the name of the city to match the sin then modern British translations would have the story of Bugger and Gomorrah. |
Actually it would be Bugger and Orgy. |
Go to dictionary.com and look at the etymology. It originates in Hebrew, then goes to Latin, then Old French, then middle English. The closest antecedent to (Middle) English is the Old French. Dictionary.com also has legal and medical definitions. I sometimes get Gomorrah, gonorrhea, and Gamera confused. |
Word Origin & History sodomy c.1300, from O.Fr. sodomie, from L.L. peccatum Sodomiticum “anal sex,” lit. “sin of Sodom,” from L. Sodoma, ult. from Heb. s’dom “Sodom,” morally corrupt city in ancient Palestine, said to have been destroyed, with neighboring Gomorrah, by fire from heaven (Gen. xviii-xix). Sodomize coined 1868. In Du. slang, besodemieteren means “to deceive,” and evidently is built from the traditional notion of “corruption” in Sodom. Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper |
It just keeps getting worse for DSK: |
‘…all are alike unto God and God loves each of his children equally.’ You have got to be kidding. How is that demonstrably a Mormon belief? |
Don, come on, get real. He didn’t say it was executed perfectly, he just said it’s taught in the BoM and by the prophets, which is obviously true: 2 Nephi 26:33 If you just want to pick a fight, do it elsewhere. |
MC Pick a fight? Me? I am crushed! |
Oops: http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/01/us-strausskahn-idUSTRE7600AC20110701 |
Wow. All charges against DSK dropped today. Unbelievable. Has to be one of the best escape acts in recent history. Apparently, the past lies that the victim told to immigration and others have now come back to haunt her. the prosecutor concluded she has no credibility and declined to prosecute the case. The victim is appealing one aspect of the case which is her motion to appoint a special prosecutor, which the trial judge declined to do. If the appeals court reverses that decision, the case will be back on, but for now, DSK is off the hook. This is strange, because the medical evidence did show sexual contact, and the victim was adament that she did not consent, but because there was no evidence of force and no witnesses, the prosutor will not ask the jury to decide the case on a he said/she said basis. Will not even bring the case to the jury. That’s astonishing to me. |
[...] title of this post is a hat tip to bbell over at MM who blogged about this subject . bbell wrote his post at the time when Dominique Strauss-Kahn (“DSK”) the then [...] |
