Danithew: The villagers in the musical do curse God, but in the end, the whole village gets converted, don’t they?

I’m reminded of the pious responses to the musical _Jesus Christ Superstar_ back in the 70′s (I was in high school, and in my year of being a “Jesus freak”).

Some churches denounced “Jesus Christ Superstar”, but also, it helped convert some people, and it strengthened the faith of others.

I’ve read three reviews by members who’ve actually seen it, DKL, Glen Nelson, and Jana Reiss

And a fourth review by a member who listened to all the musical numbers when they were available online,

All of them say the musical is not anti-religion and not anti-Mormon.

No member is going to put the gospel in a crap-sandwich in order to make it appeal to the crap-consuming segment of the public. But that’s sort of what Parker and Stone did, packaged it in something that consumers of vulgarity will consume. Those consumers are going to consume vulgarity, and if a vulgarity-dealer sells them something vulgar, with a little dose of goodness thrown in, well…, I think that might just be the only way that that audience segment is going to get a sample, however diluted and tainted, of the gospel.

In the LDS world-view, the gospel of Catholicism and Protestantism is diluted and tainted. Yet, the gospel is so powerful, that even Catholics and Protestants get a lot of it right, and do a lot of good things, and many Catholics and Protestants will tell you that they are better off with their religion than they would be without it. So even a diluted and tainted gospel can be better than no gospel at all.

Therefore, if there are any pieces of truth in the BoM musical, I think it’s better than a crap sandwich without any.

I listened to the opening number “Hello”, which has been posted on Youtube (along with some other numbers.)

It was kind of weird (oogie weird) to listen to people sing about gospel topics without the Spirit. The musical is not a good thing for members. But for people who don’t have any gospel at all, it might be a move in the right direction. And if it is, then Heavenly Father can turn it for good.

My greatest concern with this musical is the number that gleefully curses out God in as nasty a way as possible, with a calculated combination of the worst profanity the English language has to offer. I listened to the song once as it has been made available online – and the reports I read previously about the song are accurate. That’s a point where I feel the musical should be over-the-top offensive to just about everyone who isn’t a hardened atheist.

We live in a very linguistically sensitive society – but only sensitive to certain things. If you say the words ‘faggot’ or ‘chick’ it’s taken very seriously and people go out of their way to smash that kind of expression down. I don’t blame them actually – though sometimes I think the response can be a bit out-of-proportion to the offense (example: the NBA fine laid down recently on Kobe Bryant).

Setting that point aside, here in the ‘Nacle, if a person were to use that combination of profanity to address anyone (regardless of their take on Mormonism, faith, doubt, etc.) – it would be considered completely unacceptable. They would get banninated fast. Some of the most popular ‘Nacle permabloggers are well-known for being particularly thin-skinned when they are criticized in much lesser offensive ways. Yet, oddly, many of us are willing to let it slide when such crude terminology is used to reference deity. I’m not saying this because I think God needs us to defend Him. But I don’t think God approves when we laugh so loudly along with the others when this is happening. We’re supposed to reverence His name. It’s in the ten commandments. It’s part of the instruction we receive in the temple. I’m surprised we even have to talk about this, discuss it, argue it. Maybe we’ve become inoculated to some of our own beliefs – we’ve heard them so often we don’t think they matter any more -or- perhaps many of us are so bored with these beliefs that we find scorn towards them to be refreshing.

There are other concerns to be had as well, in regards to how the musical treats the LDS Church, the Book of Mormon, and members of the church – particularly with its scornful focus on missionaries who are the face of the church to most non-members out there. I think these concerns are serious too, actually, but they still take a second row to the first concern.

Bookslinger, I read those reviews as well. I am personally acquainted with Glen Nelson – he’s really a knowledgeable and thoughtful person. He wrote a very thorough, balanced review – something worthy to consider and it was probably more positive a response than might be expected. But notice also that he expressed a number of caveats and qualifications in regards to the musical. He did not offer the same raves that many others offered and he made a point of saying that he went on someone else’s dime. I know that’s not the whole story. At one point he writes:

I sat by an African-American woman who winced throughout the show when Ugandans were stereotypically portrayed. An older man in the row in front of me was clearly offended by the language and the onstage sex acts. He didn’t applaud for those songs, I noticed. And I sat on my hands for a couple of numbers too. When the character of Jesus is portrayed in pretty ugly ways in the song about his upcoming crucifixion in the song, “Man Up,” some people in the audience cheered and a few others sat, battered and shell-shocked.

He is also quite critical of the performers (“b-listers”), the structure and direction of the musical and the quality of the music (compares it to “college-review” or a “roadshow” for quality). He’s not just looking at it as a member of the church who may or may not be offended by its content – he’s also looking at it as someone who knows quite a bit about plays and musicals. This is not a two-thumbs-up review.

Notice Glen’s final line: “BoM works although it doesn’t work for me.”

I think, in effect, many of the positive aspects of Glen’s response to the play are more of an observation of the phenomenon and the hype that have accompanied the play, rather than a personal approval of what he saw and heard. He recognizes that it is a hit.

Here’s another critical look at it, with some thought behind it.

In a similar thread over at BCC (or was it T&S?) somebody commented that a Marriot hotel near Broadway had been going through cases of Book Of Mormons while the play has been going. So maybe any press is good press if people are leaving their hotel rooms interested enough to take the BOM with them.

I actually heard a similar comment about a hotel here in Manhattan – but not a Marriot. I can’t remember what chain it was (Sheraton? Hilton? not sure) – but apparently they have the Book of Mormon in the rooms there and someone said that 17 copies of the Book of Mormon had “walked off” from the rooms and needed to be replaced and I heard a church member assuring the person who said this that replacements would be provided.

DB: Do I understand you correctly to compare the acceptance speech reference to Joseph Smith with a theoretical mention of Allah?

If I understood you correctly, Allah is God to Muslims: Joseph just thought and behaved like he was God.

That subtle difference seems to have escaped you.

DKL, I think we need to stop thinking of the use of scripture references or scripture verses as a means used to end all discussion. That’s negative view of scripture and the role that it plays – and also it leads to an exclusion of material that should inform or influence our views on all kinds of topics. I think the scriptures are probably where many discussions ought to begin – or at least they ought to be considered an invaluable and necessary resource, if there are verses that can be considered applicable (and usually there are).

Also – I thought that responding to a “Book of Mormon Musical” with actual verses from the “Book of Mormon” made quite a bit of sense.

I haven’t seen it, but there’s a part of me that’s sure tempted. I’m with Danithew, though, the bits that have been quoted here in regard to God have really bothered me.

On the other hand, Bill and I watched the Tony’s (he totally humored me, bored to the gills)and thought the song that was presented from the musical was non-offensive and funny.

db, we find other ways here all the time, but this topic is interesting and current and therefore viable. We’re not trying to convert anybody, either.

On the other hand, I agree with your last sentence. While I might not bring up the Tony-winning musical “The Book of Mormon” as a way to introduce my non-member friends to the gospel, I bet a lot of people will be curious and ask about the church as a result…..and some will convert. That’s a given. So it’s all good.

Although mocking God in the ways the song quoted here did bothers me, I love the music from “Jesus Christ, Superstar.” Maybe given context, I might not mind it so much.

This is interesting because I bet the typical fan of Broadway deeply dislikes Monson and what he represents if they are even aware of him)

Yeeash.

The amount of musical theater going on in the Salt Lake valley along with the number of those damn Phantom of the Opera t-shirts every girl in my high school wore tells me you’re probably wrong about how little people care about Broadway. You and I don’t care, but the fact that you can find Mormons that don’t care about taking the YM to a shooting range doesn’t say anything about how little Mormons like guns.

As a former missionary and a believing Mormon, it leaves me feeling a bit used. Our lives and experiences are so much material for some funny guys to use as they will, in a format that is expressly designed to exclude me from the audience. It’s an old complaint, often heard when fiction draws from specific realities.

bbell, in some ways I agree with your point about the limited market for Broadway entertainment. Wicked has been a big thing there for several years now, but I would guess 70-90% of Americans wouldn’t recognize a single song from it. The larger media world, though, NPR, Newsweek, etc., has been in love with this Book of Mormon show way beyond its merits as one more musical stage production. With the Tony awards handed out, I suppose that will be about it. There won’t be anything more to say, and this show will join the heap with Avenue Q and Spamalot.

bbell is highly invested in the idea that musicals and The Book of Mormon in particular are culturally irrelevant. Attempts to demonstrate otherwise seem to fall on deaf ears. :)

bbell, the Superbowl has more viewers than the Oscars. Are movies irrelevant? And your NBA finals example just proves my point. I haven’t watch an NBA finals since Stockton retired, but I’m not going to claim the NBA isn’t relevant anymore.

Broadway isn’t relevant to you. There are people that read multiple books of the NYT bestsellers list, and there are others that haven’t read a book since college.

I’m willing to bet there are people in your ward that watched the Tony’s and are hoping some of the winners make their way out West so they can see them. I know there are in my ward.

I wonder which would be the most popular song to come out of musical theater over the last decade. Any nominees? Here’s a list of Best Musical winners and nominees: link. I suspect I’m not the only one who is whole lot more familar with tunes from the ’50s through the ’80s than with the more current stuff. There seems to be a lot of second-hand stuff these days in the vein of The Lion King and Mamma Mia. I think rewarding originality was a strong in factor in the awards for Book of Mormon.

DKL digs:

Now – “The Book of Mormon” musical: satire – let´s all laugh at ourselves, silly folk we are, so real.
Then – “No Man Knows My History” book: history – now we really have a reason to laugh at ourselves, roots so real

Gosh, ain´t we groovy, with all these foibles.

Chick alert, DKL prowls.

danithew,
When I just read your first comment and the subsequent discussion of verses, I was a little surprised, because my own thought was that the Book of Mormon predicted this outcome even before the words were written on the page. The vision Lehi and Nephi had regarding the tree of life predicts this exact thing. It also predicts the “success” of those who mock the church and its adherents. So if a person wanted to be successful, at least temporarily, you have scriptural prophecy backing you up with your own large and spacious building from which to mock the believers if you do so.