It does and it doesn’t. The bloggernacle doesn’t represent the general populace of the church, so it shouldn’t be surprising that it focuses on different things. I’m also not sure that the bloggernacle treats them as damaging, moreso irritating and pointless. But you obviously pay more attention to the threads than I do, so I will bow to your greater familiarity. As I said, people focus on things that interest/anger them.

To answer your final questions…Yes! and no.

I look forward to your posts.

The problem of the dress code is a minor one but it does deter potential converts, especially, among those demographics that are most likely to convert:

Young, open minded, and unconventional people who are ready to try something new.

There’s only one “c” in the ‘nacle. Just sayin’.

And also, “histerics” is waaaaay too strong a word to describe the discussions I’ve seen on this isssue.

Hmmm. My brother-in-law came home from the MTC after elders in his district spent three weeks telling him that the tattoo he had demonstrated a lack of belief in the prophet and the gospel. Probably not a reason for hysterics, but it is a disappointing example of #4.

He’s no longer active, which may be better for him.

I don’t know about the bloggernacle but it sounds like the church is over-reaching, especially given the scruffy appearance of the early missionaries. I’m reading D& C now and I detect a lot of fire and brimstone condemnation in there that I never noticed. Makes me think og the last few books of the Old Testament. And explains some of the self-righteous exclusionary attitude of members. Okay, some members.

A comical aspect of the Church’s supposed obsession with dress and grooming is that I’ll run across about a half dozen posts with 100+ comments each for every two minutes of actual conversation on such topics by members of my ward or stake that passes by my ears.

I don’t think it’s “hysterics” so much as it is curiosity. LDS dress standards are a peculiar thing, and increasingly so as much of the rest of the country (if not the world) is abandoning formal dress, even in Sunday worship.

I went ward-hopping on Sunday (because our house is on the market and we may be moving soon), and the ward we attended was pretty typical. Dark suits with white shirts were the large majority in Elders’ Quorum. There were a few colored shirts. I was the only guy in khakis. There was one guy in a sports jacket, white shirt, no tie, and one other who was sitting outside of the class semi-circle in jeans and a casual collared shirt. No one seemed that worked up about it, but you got the sense that people stuck to these individual dress standards pretty regularly.

I think there’s some correlation to orthodoxy here. I’m just contrarian enough to avoid wearing white shirts at church, even though I regularly wear dark suits with white shirts in more formal business settings.

bbell: Would you also say that spending an entire priesthood lesson talking about the importance of white shirts amounts to hysterics?

BrianJ, I’m still not convinced that hysterics is the right word choice, but that is pretty ridiculous. And I can pretty much guarantee that if I had to sit through that lesson, I’d show up the next week with a non-white shirt. And a bowtie. Because bowties are geek-rebellious. And bowties are cool.

“I think the attitude I’ve read elsewhere about people boasting to ‘dress down’ for church and how they wear a white shirt during the week, but intentionally not at church is concerning for reasons other than the color of the shirt.”

Can explicate the implication in this statement for me?

And also, could you explain again how both the non-white shirt wearers and the white shirt wearers are “equally culpable” for the hour-long discussion when this is clearly an issue that “God doesn’t care much about”?

These are the kinds of statements that make this topic such a curiosity.

One last comment (sorry for the post domination, bbell). One of the things that makes these discussions so interesting and peculiar (and, frankly, so awesome) is this is a topic that most non-Mormons would find incomprehensible. Or, to be more precise, the fact that we even have a discussion about whether white or light blue dress shirts are more appropriate for church would be utterly incomprehensible.

Mike S,

I really think you are overselling (BH for short) what kind of impact the tat talk is having on the general membership. Do I think its possible that some busybody could get rude about tats and white shirts? Yes this could happen. Is it the norm? No its not. I suspect that the person who would get rude about this issue would have other “issues” as well. Come to a ward that has lots of converts and go on a swimming activity. You are going to see tats. Nobody is going to freak out.

Female earings are outside the scope of this post.

I think the white shirt thing could be completely made a non-issue in a single day if the leadership wanted. All it would take is for Elder Ucthdorf to wear a lavender shirt with a nice suit and matching tie to General Conference. He could actually pull it off (and would look good doing so) and from that day forward, no one would care.

bbell, 20: Thanks. Sounds like your position is consistent, which was the motivating question behind my question. Having sat through a handful of lessons devoted entirely to male grooming standards—including at least one devoted entirely to the white shirt—I can say that I’ve spent far less time discussing the issue on blogs :)

chris, 22: the only “message” I try to send by wearing a non-white shirt to church is that I look a helluva lot better that way. “Sunday best,” right?

I do understand that looking like a Republican IS the MC uniform, but I am amazed over Mormons’ obsession over things about which Christ said nothing, to the detriment of those things he taught specifically and often.

PS It wasn’t because I didn’t dress nicely either. I actually like white shirts–as a homosexual man, I had no problem dressing up–have several nice Italian suits that I enjoy wearing. I have no earrings, no tats, no piercings….those things were the least of my problems at the MC.

Mormon Corridor? I am not sure.

BTD – I think a refusal to wear a white shirt when you’ve been asked or gently suggested to represents more of an underlying issue. The issue now is no longer the color of the shirt, but for some reason someone refusing to act on something they themselves see as being a non-issue. If it is a non-issue, why create the issue over it? It has to cut both ways. As with the culpability. If someone does not understand and is generally really bothered by the fact that people suggest for them to wear white, then that is all the reason to have a lesson on it and answer/address those questions or concerns.

I am really not sure about all the “whys” of the white shirt, so maybe I could use a lesson on it too, if there was some useful information to impart :) But you could take a stab at it to tie the white into purity… to remind those wearing white of officiating in the priesthood, and at least draw their connection to the temple. You could also tie in the white of the garment of the holy priesthood. I’m not sure how much of those play into the white shirt, but at least there is a connection between the three.

Searching for a little quote, we can find recently by Elder Holland, “For sacred ordinances in the Church we often use ceremonial clothing, and a white shirt could be seen as a gentle reminder of the white clothing you wore in the baptismal font and an anticipation of the white shirt you will soon wear into the temple and onto your missions. That simple suggestion is not intended to be pharisaic or formalistic. We do not want deacons or priests in uniforms or unduly concerned about anything but the purity of their lives. But how our young people dress can teach a holy principle to us all, and it certainly can convey sanctity. As President David O. McKay taught, a white shirt contributes to the sacredness of the holy sacrament”

I don’t think it needs to be anymore than just asking us to stand a part and consider some kind of significance to what we wear in the manner they ask us. I won’t speak for someone else now, but refer to myself and say, if I’ve worn colored shirts before. Sometimes because I like it, sometimes because the white shirt is dirty (from being at the temple all week no less). But if I found myself as a “principle” intentionally not wearing a white shirt, I would consider myself as not living up to my obligation to receiving the Lord’s servants (see Oath & Covenant of the priesthood). Now, as I pointed out there are a variety of different reasons, and I don’t think it would be appropriate to ever apply this label to someone else. Only myself and the Lord can know about me… I suppose someone else could know about me if I came out and told them my reasons.

If I felt I didn’t look good in white, or if I felt I looked better in something else, again I’d ask myself, what is my focus here? To look good? Does it matter to me? Do I really think its so important to broadcast my individuality and I’m going to do it by wearing the same shirt as someone else, just in another color? Conversely, am I a better person because I wear white? Am I entitled to feel more (self) righteous simply because I wear white? Does it let me judge others?

I think this are all interesting questions to ask and there are likely more. But I think it seems strange that we’d be willing to pay tithes or dedicate so much time to what we believe is the Lord’s church and then get hung up on a white shirt. Yes, I get it that someone would think “they” just shouldn’t care about that and should save their council for more important advice.

I’d just remark that sometimes looking for the principles behind something (be they the symbolism of the white shirt, or prayerfully considering what the Lord’s servants have to say) can bring a lot of blessings if we turn our decisions over to the Lord. I’m not saying just get in line and do it without considering it — in fact, I think that’s just as bad if not even worse than being bothered by the white shirt counsel. But I do think where some perceive the issue, they have an opportunity to receive real blessings (particularly those of testimony) that come from seeking to implement the suggestions of the Lord’s servants in our lives.

I do think the “opposition” so to speak on this issue does serve a good purpose in making the way possible for further light and knowledge. But it doesn’t mean we need to embrace everything about that opposition so to speak…

Chris,

The quote you just used pertains to AP holders participating in the Sacrament. I don’t think its over the top to ask YM who are participating in ordinances to where a white shirt and tie. I also think you need to be gentle with YM who show up in a blue shirt.

I don’t think you can take that quote and then try to apply it to every male who is in attendance at church that day.

At the end of the day its just a shirt color. Trust me most men are not making a statement by wearing a non white shirt. When I wear a non-white shirt its just because that is what I grabbed out of my closet. I have been known to wear light gray, blue, lavender, and yellow. Although I do mostly wear white. Some of my suits just look better with a nice matching colored shirt.

MC is Mormon Church. I thought it is still OK since ‘the Church’ is doing the ‘I’m a Mormon’ campaign. OK what is DAMU?

My 12 year old grandson just got BOTH his ears pierced. I think it looks awful.