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That’s when you start making up kids or over-glossing the amazing things the real ones did. |
It’s also a handy way for you to size up whom to bother getting to know as well. Those overly interested in the kinds of details you mentioned are probably not worth much more of your time. The filter can work both ways. |
The fiter can and should work both ways. We were talking about ward social capital on another blog, and how it is a real and necessary thing, but the premise in that discussion was that social capital comes from pitching in and doing your part on things that no one really likes to do but need to get done. In other words, when you’re new in a ward, you don’t really have the right to expect people to take you seriously until you’ve shown that you are willing to take on whatever you’re asked to do, including doing your home teaching, taking on welfare assignments, showing up for service projects, cleaning assignments and all that. That’s where legitimate social capital comes from. |
I agree and I vaguely recall that conversation. Social capital helps, but in my experience the insufferable Mormons who lead with and make judgments like the checklist above aren’t interested in HT, service projects, cleaning assignments etc… They are too vested in their outward trappings as a manifestation of their own righteousness. I wonder how much service and social capital it would take to overcome the stigma of a kid who does not attend any of the BYUs, or a kid who a kid who did not serve a mission? I’m not saying there should be any stigma at all, but in the minds of people who lead with those kinds of questions, I wonder how much social capital it would take. |
rbc- I think it would take an awful lot of church cleaning to make up for grown kids who don’t follow the program. I am now seeing how it feels to be judged for stuff I have no control over. |
#1 Newlyhousewife- One time I while Rob and I were on our semi-annual walk-around-the-block-for-health we got to talking about what the family Christmas Letter would be like for parents of a kid in the Penitentiary. We thought it would be something like: Thanks for reminding me that Creative Writing skills have many applications. |
Attending one of the BYUs is one of the big questions? That’s misguided on so many levels. I have more respect for someone who attends another school (local or not), remains active, and represents the church to his or her classmates and friends. (I realize that BYU has opportunities for missionary work too–my wife was friends with a nonmember there–but those opportunities are extremely limited). |
Sorry, but in the 18 years since our nine kids (combined marriage) have started leaving home, I’ve never sensed any “code” on the occasions when people have asked asked about kids and grandkids, and certainly not the specifics you list. When we’ve changed wards (which has happened a lot — 10 in the 25 years we’ve been married) and folks ask about kids, I state that we have nine kids (with a few semi-adopted kids as well), they’re scattered all over, some are married, some are not, and we now have XX grandkids (where XX currently equals 14) — and everyone seems quite happy with that. Please don’t take offense, but I have to wonder if there’s some projection going on here. ..bruce.. |
Don’t overlook the chance to have some fun with all of this. I have a couple of siblings and only one of us attended BYU. When getting interrogated by someone whom I sense equates righteousness with BYU I usually reply, “I have 3 siblings; one went to USC, one went to UVA and the other couldn’t get into a good school so he went to BYU.” Usually works. |
#8 bfwebster -In this instance, I have to disagree. Even my husband, who we can agree will never win awards for emotional awareness, has noticed the odd interrogations we have had. |
LIZ: Actually, I suspect that since I have had a beard most of my adult life, they consider me suspect already and figure it’s not worth asking. ;-) Now that I’m freshly shorn (a personal decision, largely to motivate myself to accomplish some specific goals before I can grow it back), I’ll have to see if I get quizzed. Of course, that means I’d have to move to another ward, since we’ve been in this one six years, and the members know more about us than perhaps they really wanted to know. :-) Seriously, though, I’ve never had anyone — in leadership positions or otherwise, through 10 different wards — appear to want to get at those particulars, hence my question. I accept your characterization of what they’re asking, but I consider them ‘way out of line for so asking. ..bruce.. |
I think I really confuse people when I move into a new ward. On the one had, I have the credit associated with being a life-long member (pioneer stock even), returned missionary, capable teacher, once married, kids who currently seem non-problematic, regular church attendance, willing sub for primary, and dependable visiting teacher. On the other hand, I am divorced, a working mother, have a visible tattoo, and am clearly a democrat. I tend to think my credits and debits balance each other out. I know I am a problem case (have High Priest home teachers!), but I also seem to be acceptable to leaders in the ward, both formal and informal. So far. |
In my ward, having kids who attend BYU would be a social drawback, since most us are Utah alums. Most of the families in my ward who are BYU fans or have family members attending there are smart enough to keep it to themselves so that they aren’t the subject of ridicule. |
ESO– What I would give to have a pair of HP home teachers… Though I suspect the HP part is because you’re divorced. The ward here has it set up to where HP sees all the “single” folks (this includes part-member families and widows/widowers), and EQ sees all the “married” (spouses are sealed in the temple). I guess the logic is EQ never does their home teaching so best give them to members that have an earthly buddy. |
I’m pretty sure it’s church policy that non-elderly single women be assigned HP home teachers, at least when possible. |
Tim–it’s not automatic in our ward. I know there are single women who are home taught by elders. But in may case, I know I was moved because of the perception that I need special support. |
There is a pecking order to BYU campuses. Provo, then Hawaii, then Iceburg. Because, it’s about academics first and location second. |
17- I noticed that too. But if you live outside of the Mormon Belt being on any BYU campus is a quick way to know that a kid is on the straight and narrow. |
When I moved to northeastern Ohio, the interrogation at church centered around my support of the Ohio State or Michigan football programs. Responding that I was from California and had no opinion didn’t help–there were lines and they had to be drawn. |
But if you live outside of the Mormon Belt being on any BYU campus is a quick way to know that a kid is on the straight and narrow. Unless you were a Heritage Halls head resident (as my former wife and I were during my senior year of college). We were over two halls full of mostly freshman girls, most of whom were just delightful and doing their best, with the inevitable slips and errors. Some, however, went ‘way off the reservation. We actually had to break up one apartment completely; a few of the girls were suspended from school on honor code violations; the rest were relocated to separate, different halls. And for the remainder of that 2nd semester, there was just a creepy feeling around that empty apartment (as with all the other apartments, I had to check every night to be sure its outside door was closed and locked). I had more than one conversation with an outraged parent insisting that his daughter would never do anything like that, when I knew quite well otherwise (besides being the head resident, I was also Exec Sec’y for the student branch and worked quite closely with the branch president). My big lesson was that if someone in a position of oversight or authority called and told me my teenage/young adult child was doing X, there was a good chance that my child was indeed doing X. ..bruce.. |
I’m an honest person. I’m pretty bad at lying. If you ask me if those pants make your butt look fat, I’ll have to say, “yeah, sadly, they do.” However, as I’ve written here before, I’m not above the practical joke. In that vein, I can lie with the best of them. Sometimes to weed out the weak, I’ll tell new people I just got out of jail for drug abuse or something like that. I love to see their faces. However, I’ve never considered lying about myself in a bragging way. I think I’ll try it. And then when somebody says to someone who knows me “wow, all her kids are married in the temple and went on missions and are doctors and lawyers” it will be fun. After one particularly bad year, I sent out a Christmas letter with the theme “hope.” We hope Jared doesn’t die from cancer before he gets out of jail. We hope Jessie doesn’t get pregnant by her felon husband. Stuff like that, in a more humorous vein. I have some wonderful friends whose kids DID all get married in the temple, boys on missions, doctors and lawyers abounding. They are great people, but boy, those braggy Christmas letters, I could so live without. Wonderful post, LIZ. |
#21- I would love a copy of your Hope Christmas letter. And I live for your praise. Thank you. |
If your kids graduate high school without: a) ever being in jail/juvy, then in my book, you’ve done a good job. And if they can get an associates/bachelor’s degree in 3/6 years of classes after high school, you’ve done an excellent job. And if they have done all that, and went on a mission, and are still active in church, people ought to kneel before you and kiss your feet. |