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I’m so sorry for your experience. When Rod was still governor I was flying home from Phoenix one time and he happened to be on my flight. A guy a few seats down from me was muttering under his breath, wondering why that SOB had to be on our flight. |
God will get him, LIZ……have you heard anything of that new series “Boss?” I’m a little embarrassed to admit watching it—it’s a new guilty pleasure (along with “Homeland”—what is the entertainment value of explicit sex? doesn’t add a thing to the story.) Anyway, it’s a drama about the mayor of Chicago and Illinois politics. Comes off really uh, Soviet….murders, etc. Like I said, I’m trying to stop watching, but still, food for thought. And that begs the question, does this go on in cities—states, (even Utah?!)across the country. What happens behind the scenes in my small town? Really scary and sad. Be glad you’re on the side of the angels because Blagovich is in for it on an eternal standpoint. He’s so screwed. |
Indiana and Indianapolis have their corruption too. Our governor, who comes across as a right-wing conservative good-guy, was one of the insiders who made millions on a deal where Indianapolis Power and Light (IPL) was sold to American Electric Power (AEP). The deal was not in the best interest of IPL, its stockholders, or the customers. It was done via stock swap, when AEP was trading for much more than it was worth. The insiders all sold their AEP stock immediately and made millions. The executives of IPL all got bonuses in the millions. Then the stock of AEP crashed, and all the former IPL stockholders then had worthless AEP stock. Plus AEP reduced the number of repair crews, and transfered their equipment out of state, so now it takes much longer to restore power after storms knock down lines. IPL used to be able to restore power within 24 to 48 hours. Now it is 4 days to a week or longer. AEP pretty much “gutted” IPL. |
I hope that some day, people like this will awaken to the awful realization of their selfishness and socially (not to mention internally) destructive behavior. If the gospel has any truth to it at all, then in many ways, I think we’ll all have that same kind of awful realization and desire to shake from the presence of sin. I find no solace in hoping for or contemplating the suffering another will experience when their eyes are finally opened and they realize the foundations they’ve built their entire personal philosophical foundations on were corrupted at the core. This awful feeling of regret and despair can only be healed by pleading for forgiveness for our misdeeds from Him who descended below us all. |
To answer your question anne, and not to diminish the horrible things that were done to Living in Zion, but yes, this happens everywhere at every level. Being a politician means owing favors and collecting favors on your way up. Entering politics requires money and connections. I have never met a politicians that hasn’t done something I would consider immoral. Not to say every politician is like Tom Kane on Boss (which I agree is an excellent show), but from my experience working with some of these people, I don’t believe it’s possible to be completely clean. |
And thanks to jjohnsen, I have to wonder why any member wants to pursue politics in the first place. |
Wow. We lived in IL for 7 years and really disliked Blago, but had no personal reason to. Corruption is despicable, and 14 years is not long enough. |
I have been involved in politics at some level for several years and I disagree with jj to some extent. It is possible to be a moral person and be a politician. I don’t know what he means by “completely clean,” but I personally know some politicians who I are excellent, honest, moral people, so I think it is wrong to tar every politician with the same brush. Certainly it is a difficult job and it puts people in a position where they basically have to go around asking for moneyall the time, and then they have to try to operate in office without doing any special favors for the people and businesses who opened their checkbooks and gave them the money that made their campaign possible. At best, it’s difficult. At worst, it’s impossible not to at least appear to be trading favors for money. In the end, though, I believe it is possible to do the job without breaking laws or behaving unethically. If that were not true, we would have few if any Mormon politicians and none with temple recommends. There are, of course, politicians like Blago, who make no effort to operate morally, and who are basically in politics to get every dollar out of it that they can, legally or illegally. Hopefully, the fact that people like Blago are caught and go to jail will deter others like him from that kind of behavior. Sorry to hear about the effect that his actions had on your family, LIZ. I have heard a lot of stories in the last few years about people losing jobs and ending up in foreclosure, so you’re not alone. To endure that because of an economic downturn is bad enough, but to have it happen because of corruption or criminal behavior is much worse, because you know it’s something that need not and should not have happened. I hope you can forgive and heal from this. |
In my job I’ve dealt with people in politics as well as people working for the LDS church. Neither one has done much to increase my opinion of my fellow man. Somethings you just can’t get close too if you want to keep a high opinion of the people involved. |
I too believe it is possible to be involved in politics without breaking laws or behaving unethically. I do not however believe politicians can raise money with no strings attached. This has been demonstrated to me over and over at many levels. Can you honestly tell me that when AT&T spends over $11 million a year on lobbying, that you don’t believe the recipients of that lobbying are influenced one little bit? I think the fact that AT&T is willing to spend that is proof that they believe it works.
I’m not his SP, but Mitt Romney has made statements publicly that would disqualify him based on “Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?”. I’m willing to bet I could find something similar on many other LDS politicians. We’ve had this discussion before though, and I’m pretty sure we aren’t going to change each other’s mind. |
Would you bet $10,000? |
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I stopped with LDS politicians because I assumed those who weren’t LDS wouldn’t be going to the temple anyway, so wouldn’t be trying for a temple recommend, which is what you were talking about, Mormon politicians with temple recommends. Was I wrong to assume that, or is Barack Obama planning on doing a session this weekend? Judging doesn’t have to come into it. Mitt Romney has told bald-faced lies that have been recorded on video. No judgement necessary when the proof is right there.
Absolutely. Are you saying it would be difficult for me to find an LDS politician that has lied in an interview, a stump speech or campaign ad? Shall we start with Orrin Hatch? |
Losing a job, and then moving and selling a house at a loss, is a tough thing that I among many have had to deal with, but there is a limit as to how many degrees of consequence the lousy boss doing the firing is responsible for in my life. |
#14 John, |
Two things: One: $10,000 was a joke in reference to Romney’s ill advised bet in the recent debate. Two: I don’t think that broken campaign promises are in and of themselves evidence of being dishonest in your dealings with your fellow men. |
I agree with arj. Let’s be real. |
“What part of illegal firing, job loss and forced to move did you not understand?” Due to the crooked governor, you had to sell your house (and even that is stretching the chain of culpability a bit), but he didn’t have anything to do with it being unsellable. Life is hard in all kinds of ways, and most of them cannot be pinned on a villian. |
I used to work for a trade association. It was a great place to work until we hired a former Republican southern governor as our new president. He had made a reputation as governor for firing state employees and once installed as our leader he began firing us, especially those of us of a certain age and salary range. But what really hurt is the way he did it: one a month, or two a month. We all turned into zombies, insomniacs, anxiety-attacked wrecks. The worst thing about was that this guy wasn’t even a full-time leader. He spent much of each month back in his home state managing the fortunes of the Republican Party there. In a profit making organization, even the dimmest employee gets the connection between his employer’s fortunes and his continued employment, but when you are on a yearly budget and there is no mandate to fire and lots of people lose their jobs anyway, it sucks. A lot of people were hurt. |
Well, that is what the federal presentencing investigation is for. Your story should go to them, just fyi. |
Due to the crooked governor, you had to sell your house (and even that is stretching the chain of culpability a bit) LIV et al probably could have chosen to [reside with the in-laws/sharecrop/hunt and gather/etc.] rather than expose themselves to the risks inherent to funding the construction of a house with the income generated by employment with a state known for its corrupt administration. I know it’s too late for them, but I am taking note! |
#19-Ray – I *heart* u. |
That situation is terrible and stress like that is an awful burden to bear. I think the point Mansfield is making, which is probably correct if a little obnoxious, is that lots of people lose their jobs every day and have to deal with that problem in the midst of whatever else is going on in their lives, often without being able to blame anyone for the job loss. In your case, losing a job at that point was terrible timing, and just as obviously, in your case Blago’s corruption played a role in the job loss. But no job is guaranteed for life. In fact, in most cases, including public employment, you can be fired for no reason at all. The fact that Blago lied about the reason is interesting, but he probably didn’t need to. A governor or other chief executive can usually hire and fire whomever he wants. Whatever the reason for it, losing a job is losing a job and we all have to keep in mind that job loss can happen at any time to any one of us. The recent economy has made that fact, among others, very clear. |
#23 – MCQ – Very well spoken point. |
The stress of thinking about what you would do if you lost your job today is bad enough. Thinking about it EVERYDAY? Well that’s almost as bad as LiZ’s experience. Lets just know bad things happen to good people and talk about non-stressful things like unicorns and non-endangered/extinct butterflies. |
#25 – and balloons. Balloons make everyone happy. Especially the kind you can twist and make into a hat. |