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Like your last paragraph. There seems to be some earthly resolution there. While not gay there have been 3 experiences in my lifetime with gays in the church. #1- Wonderful beloved man in our ward who was a hairdresser and the sisters loved him. He was for a time our home teacher and was always welcomed. He knew he did not fit into that 60′s-70′s LDS culture but it was his culture too. Gentle, kind, handsome, always a smile on his face, Died a horrible death from AIDS. I was young but always believed he was that way from birth. #2- Mission companion. Buried so deep in the closet none of us knew. Married after his mission, kids came and then he opened up to his wife that he was attracted only to men. She, bravely, accepted the reality of their temple marriage, kept open the lines of communication, and kept their children close to their Dad while living apart. He used to have panic attacks during our time together in the MTC. We did not know why. I believe it was due to the close quarters with the other Elders especially during sports and changing of clothes after showering. How would I have reacted if I had been in close quarters with naked and partially clothed beautiful women for weeks on end and having to hide my emotional and physical reactions? #3- Long time friend. Bunch of kids and a wife, totally freaks out over a couple of months. Leaves behind his lifetime of controlled behavior according to LDS standards and moves into sexual relationships with men and women. Finally settling into a singles lifestyle of some sort. Off the deep end into the pool of gomorrah. No bathing cap or swimsuit required. I lived through the BYU terrorism against gays in the late 60′s and 70′s. Appreciate the new position the church has taken with regard to LDS members who wish to retain their membership and heritage within the church. We are all God’s kids. Can’t wait to find out why some are born into this life with feelings towards members of the same sex. |
I don’t have a direct comment on the subject of the post, but I gotta say I liked the term(s) “natural/alternative/complementary health field”! Kind of a nice catch-all phrase. |
I totally agree with all of this. Since the days of our neighborhoods’ innocence, when we were all sure we were raising prophets, having family home evening and prayers and never missing church, etc., at least three of those kids who fought and rode their bikes screaming like banshees has come out. Two were married, with kids. We’re all a bit shell-shocked, but becoming MUCH less condemning in our conversation. |
There is a mother I know who’s child came out while living at home. This was back in the day, and he was kicked out. Now only the siblings talk to each other, mom and dad are out of the kids life. I find it heartbreaking to know that for some kids it’s better to lie than to tell the truth. Life should never be that way. |
NH, approximately 40% of homeless teens in this country are GLBT, having been kicked out of their homes by disapproving parents. Shameful!! |
But, isn’t that changing, rather rapidly? And that 40%, how many are Mormon youth? I don’t know anyone personally who’s done that. Everyone I know feels pretty much like I do. Some are still in shock, but they love their kids. I tell you, I would absolutely HATE to be the prophet right now. It doesn’t sound fun to me at all. |
I agree. I wouldn’t want to be the prophet or a presidential candidate who has to declare a stance on any same-sex legislation. I would really, really hate to be that guy. |
I’m glad you made this post today. I am a male latter-day-saint who is attracted to other men. I have been this way as long as I can remember, though I couldn’t face it until the last month of my mission. Since my mission, I have undergone over a decade of therapy to change this. Although I am less depressed and anxious, and now fully accept my masculinity, my sexual orientation is no different than it was ten years ago. I appreciate the teaching that same-sex-attraction is not a sin. I think that many latter-day-saints cannot accept this, or do not believe it. What does it mean about the plan of salvation, if people can be same-sex-attracted? I have come to the understanding that my situation is one of the many ways that the Fall manifests itself in mortality. I believe that the resurrection will resolve this issue, but I must live through life until then. My current choice is celibacy. I hope that latter-day-saints can appreciate the difficulty and loneliness of choosing lifelong celibacy. Our church demands it of people like me (and I do not necessarily disagree with this), but there are really no cultural or institutional supports for a celibate LDS life. If you are an unmarried woman, you are pitied. If you are an unmarried man, you are blamed and vilified. Being an unmarried man is simply unacceptable in the church. Unlike other religions, there is no viable, respected, celibate life path available. If I want to make it, I have to carve it out for myself in frustration and tears. I have currently been struggling with the church. The most difficult thing I face lately is the knowledge that the brethren have no answers. They simply do not know how to help people like me. Aside from encouraging words from Elder Holland, the church’s position is a an unyielding firmness against sexual transgression, to the exclusion of love and charity in many cases. We need better answers than this. I am “in the closet”. I find no benefit in broadcasting my sexual orientation, although it may be a valid choice for others. My parents do not know about it (as far as I know), primarily because I love them too much to put them through it. They have their own pain. I have been treated with a great deal of love by my bishops. But I have no confidence that I would be treated with respect and acceptance if other members of the church knew. So I carry my pain alone. |
You’re right Nick. It is shameful. There’s no excuse for kicking your child out. Shoot their laptop, sure, but don’t kick them out. |
There are lots of reasons I’d hate to be the prophet, but this issue is not one of them. For once can’t we be ahead of the curve on this issue? In our irrational desire to be accepted by mainstream Christianity, many in the church have adopted their hateful and bigoted rhetoric toward the gay community. And in some instances we’ve led the charge. It’s embarrassing and shameful. Would it be so bad for the church to come out and say, we don’t know all the answers, but it’s clear that homosexuality is real and it’s not something that can be cured. We’re not sure how it will be resolved in the next life, but for the time being we’re not going to stand in the way of committed, same-sex partners being together and marrying. Without a specific revelation telling us otherwise, we can’t seal them in the temple, but we welcome them into the church with full fellowship otherwise. This is the Christian thing to do. And if we did it now, it would be a bright spot in our history that we would look back on 20 years from now with pride. |
It’s not too hard to understand where these shameful parents are coming from, though. These are people who live their entire lives desperately trying to avoid being eternally kicked out of the “house” by an allegedly perfect parent. Why would they, as imperfect parents, follow any different example? |
The thing is, 20 years ago, I might have done that. In the name of religion. |
Jeremiah, you should read my post on sort of the same subject. The thing is, you’re not alone. Have you read Carol Lynn Pearson’s book “No More Goodbyes?” |
Nick, That is an interesting way to look at it. I am interested to see how perfect Heavenly Father is. Is He really got it all figured out, or is he just farther along the road than the rest of us. Eternity will tell. |
I’m on the other side of the issue, as a gay son watching my parents come to grips with this. It’s difficult for me to articulate the reality of what growing up gay and LDS is like, particularly in any manner that makes sense to them. It is sometimes impossible to make it clear why comparisons to addiction and alcoholism are not remotely accurate, why things like Church meetings and conferences––that were to them a source of peace and hope––drove me steadily down the path to suicide. In the first few years after my mission, I read pretty much everything the Church ever published on the issue of homosexuality. That experience was a death-blow to whatever hope I had left. It became very clear that, insofar as same-sexuality was concerned, the Brethren had only ever approached near enough to blow kisses at reality from a safe distance. It was hard too, watching my folks’ faces as I described loading a handgun and putting it in my mouth, as I told them the only thing that stopped me from squeezing the trigger was not any memory of them or my brothers and sisters, but the sudden thought of one of my friends, a non-Mormon, and the only person on the planet who I could imagine that would rather see me as a live, happy gay man, than a corpse in temple robes. Mixed into the pain there is anger and frustration at a Church that continues to teach, through representatives (Elder Oaks especially of late) and various publications, that what I and people like me want most is to take away their religious freedom, to turn their faith into some kind of crime, to undermine and destroy their marriage and their family. I AM THEIR FAMILY! Why can’t they see the contradiction between their belief that “No success can compensate for failure in the home,” and the fact that their allegiance to a Proclamation of ink and paper always seems to carry more weight than the bond to their own flesh and blood? It isn’t that they don’t love me––they do. I know they do. They just love something else more. The Church seems bent on reminding them that loyalty to The Family must take precedence over their family. I’m probably not being fair. It’s hard for me to be objective because some of the wounds are old and very deep; they are pulled open again and again. In any case, no matter how painful, I am committed to being patient and remaining visible. I will be as much as part of their lives as they will allow. I will make certain they know I love them. I will ensure that every time they hear words like “perversion” and “abomination” they will be forced to square that with their memories of me; every time they are told how I threaten their freedom and family they will recall holidays and reunions, meals and phone-calls shared. I will put a human face to what they are told is “evil,” and they will have to decide if the label fits. |
Things got pretty ugly when my son came out of the closet, and his mother never quite got over it, so I know a little about what people go through. But we are given these trials to overcome them, to see people through God’s eyes (and love them) even though doing so is difficult. If God gave you the hard path, it’s because he loves you more. |
I’m so sorry for your pain, Anon. So sorry. Bradley, I hate your last sentence. Hate it. Don’t buy it. I don’t hate you, just the sentiment. Makes me want to hurl. |
Lovely post. As an out gay man who’s also an active member of the Church (and EQ teacher), I’m proof that the Church is different today than it was just 10 years ago. But all of my out gay former-Mormon friends are proof that it isn’t quite different enough. |
Bradley, maybe you have it backwards. Perhaps the whole purpose of your son being gay is to teach you and others things like tolerance, patience, long-suffering, kindness, acceptance; in essence love and charity. I hesitate to suggest it but perhaps you are the one with the “trials to overcome”. Maybe you missed the whole point of the lesson. |
#16 – Bradley – I am ready for someone else to be loved more by God. I’ve had more than my share of His attention and I am fine with passing on the extra love. |
I got that Bradley was referring to himself even though he used the word “you.” It’s a difficult situation to be an active Mormon with a gay child. It appears that Bradley is choosing to love his child and I applaud that. But I’m with you, LIZ. Another thing I hate to hear is how strong I must be since God chose to give me this trial. Twenty years ago this would have been a truly devastating blow for many active LDS parents. Not so much now. My opinion now is if your child is alive, it’s all good. |
I am in the same situation. My son told us he was gay when he was in high school, but we suspected it for some time. It was devastating for my wife who has the “Proclamation on the Family” memorized. She still is totally devoted to him and has grown to accept it and actually likes some of his traits that seem to go along with it. (She likes to take him with her when she shops for clothes.) My son is lucky in that he has no self hatred about his orientation. He knows this is how he was born and he doesn’t beat himself up about it. He can’t imagine wanting to change any more than a heterosexual can imagine becoming gay. His siblings are completely accepting and we have maintained a very close and loving family. But we realize we don’t fit the image we thought we would be of the “typical LDS family.” The biggest challenge I have to my testimony is the idea that I should counsel my son to go through life alone. That is beyond the limits of my faith. I can pay tithing, live the Word of Wisdom, etc., but I don’t have enough faith that the Church is true to tell my son to commit to a life of loneliness. I don’t think I want that much faith. Everyday I’m grateful that we’re not in this situation 20 or 30 years ago when attitudes were much different, when the Church said it was a choice and that you can change, and when it was blamed on the parents. I am horrified at the thought of how I might have treated my son back then. |
Ed – You sound like a very loving father. Your son, whether gay or straight, is lucky to have you and your wife as parents. That is probably why he is comfortable in his own skin. |
If….I would hope to hell I had the faith, the courage, the love, the compassion to hold on to my gay child no matter what. I know my church would not welcome that child, and I know the world even now would not be all that welcoming. Therefore, it would behoove me above all others to provide at least one small safe harbor. |
Beautifully said, Ray. Really. |
I’m with you guys. |
Anon- I’m sorry for all the pain. I’m sorry for the culture that hurts one of God’s children. Ed- if only all gay children had a father like you. I guess I believe you represent our Heavenly Parents love. |
Another fantastic piece and wonderful thoughtful comments. AND Prop 8 has been held unconstitutional by 2 courts. Maybe the world is going to end in 2012! |
I would hope to keep my parents’ examples if I ever have to deal with something like this. They’ve had several children live by the gospel and have good lives that way, and they’ve had several children choose ways of life that they very strongly disagree with. But they’ve always made it clear that while they disagree with some of the choices, they love all of us unconditionally and we are family no matter what. Even when it’s been obvious that those choices hurt them, they’ve never pushed any of us kids away. I can’t express how grateful I am for their love and example through my life. |
It’s been just over a year since my return missionary son had the courage to tell his father and I that he is gay. Not for one second would I think of turning my back on my child. Not because he has blue eyes instead of brown, blonde hair instead of black or because he is attracted to guys instead of girls. The pain he has faced breaks my heart. The fact he didn’t feel he could tell us sooner breaks my own heart. I wasn’t there for him when he needed his mother the most. He has shown nothing but faith and courage, I’m so proud of him. This has not been easy, he has dealt with depression and anxiety attacks, but now stands ready to leave the church to live with and love another man. I wish there was another way, but how can anyone in the church deny him the committed relationship and love of another? He wishes they could marry, maybe someday they will. Yes, it’s hard in this church to be a parent of a gay child. Only the bishop in our ward knows, but every word, lesson and scripture is now analyzed through my different seeing eyes. Where the Proclamation is concerned, I try to read it’s intent, we do need a man and a woman at some point to create the child right? A family is better with two parents to help, teach and guide said child. Leave out the word “marriage” that has now become such a political hot button, imagine a man and woman raising children or two adults of the same sex, it’s still a family and the Proclamation still has good things to say. Am I glossing over things too much? Maybe. Am I picking and choosing what to believe? Probably. But no one else is giving much Christ centered advice here and I have to do what my heart tells me to do with a lot of prayer thrown in. |
God bless you. You might be surprised how many people in your ward are experiencing the same thing. I would dispute your criticism that no one else is giving Christ centered advice. I see a lot of focus on love. That’s pretty Christ-like. You don’t have the patent on tolerance and love because of your experience and your criticism was untrue and unfair. |
annegb, maybe she meant that no one is giving mich Christ-centered advice to her in her life, not here on this site. |
Yeah, you’re probably right. I deleted it. My apologies. |
My daughter skyped me while I was watching TV and another came over and we got into a conversation and sat on the remote or something. Anyway, when I came back, my TV was set to a gay TV channel. That’s what the name was—Gay TV. They were talking about how right wing extremists are infiltrating elementary schools in order to encourage homophobia. And I just thought that was so hilarious because there are a lot of conservative channels saying the same thing about gays. We are in such an “us vs. them” society. Suspicious of each other. I don’t actually know anybody who’s gay or not gay who’s trying to infiltrate elementary schools in order to brainwash kids one way or the other. I hope I don’t get sucked up into any of this. It’s so easy to picture people working against you; for instance, I picture my bishopric assigning somebody to spy on my blog….or my Relief Society president assigning ladies to keep an eye on me. Seriously. Maybe we’re all too busy worrying about those who conspire against us to actually conspire against anybody. |