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The first thing that comes to mind is we don’t sing “Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel” hardly ever anymore. It was my favorite hymn as a child because it was the only song that got the organist swaying back and forth on the organ bench as she played it. I always thought of it has having a bit of a ‘rock’ beat. I would request it but my ward is super efficient and in January they make up a spread sheet of Sacrament Meeting hymns for the year. I asked once for a particular song and the chorister explained the iron-clad rule on music. I couldn’t believe it so I tested it. I asked the Bishop if I we could change a song for the next Sunday. With a straight face, in all seriousness he explained their yearly planning of hymns but he said my request would be considered. The next Sunday before Sacrament the Bishop caught me and apologized. The Bishopric had made my request part of their weekly Priesthood meeting that morning and decided that breaking from their prearranged hymn list would cause too much disruption. Sigh. I get to try again for next year if I submit my request in December. Some things aren’t going to change soon enough for me. Also outside of Utah/AZ/Idaho I haven’t seen a proper Pioneer Day celebration with kids dressed up as pioneers, etc. in ages. The biggie for me has to be the changes in the temple ceremony over the years. That completely works for me. When I was a kid it was repeatedly drummed into me that the church was the same from the beginning and would never change. We took comfort thinking that while the rest of the world changed “with the whims of man”, the Church would stay the same. Boy, did that not work out as planned. When the Priesthood was extended to all men in 1978 that caused a ton of discussion at our dinner table. I was a kid and didn’t care. We lived in Oregon and I hadn’t seen a person of color in real life yet. The only black people I saw were on TV. Sanford and Son was one of my favorite tv shows. The one thing I would LOVE to see change is to put water filters on the faucet used for the sacrament water. I hate the chlorine/fluoride/chemical taste of city water. Yuck. I have been tempted to bring my own filtered water to sip. I think Jesus would approve. |
My grandmother was scandalized when I brought face cards over. This was maybe two years ago. Thanks, “Mormon Doctrine.” If you’re looking for an official word on face cards, you’re not going to find it in the last eighty years. Parlor games of all kinds (board games, card games) were preached against before my grandmother was born, but not since. And of course Professor Bott showed a side of racism that’s typically not seen in younger generations. Thanks again, “Mormon Doctrine.” My guess for my young children? No more Proposition 8 type stuff (at least not by the time they’re adults), although the church will not acknowledge gay marriage as being valid for church purposes. The church will continue to move away from Utah and U.S.-centric approaches, and feel more like the international church it is. More movement towards actual charity towards the living and less emphasis on work for the dead. |
I was talking to a Jewish Dr. yesterday. I mentioned that I went to BYU and he laughed. “I’m always amused that when I’m working with a Mormon I’m the Gentile!” I told him that although I heard that repeatedly when I was growing up in the 60s and 70s I haven’t heard non mormons referred to as gentiles for probably 30 years. |
1. The great and abominable church I think alot of things can be traced back to Brother Brigham and then enforced by BRM. |
There has been a lot of emphasis on “grace” lately that simply was not there when I was younger. We were taught (we really were) that we believed in works over grace, and that the term was used by the lazy Christians who taught that believing was sufficient for salvation. The Church is definitely more Christ-centered than it used to be. |
Ooooohhhhhh yes! How could I forget Mormon Doctrine? It sat proudly on my parent shelf, referred to often whenever there was a question on what our opinion should be. I am embarrassed to admit I got a copy for my home when I married and then gave a copy to friend I helped to convert. Way to spread the misinformation! PS – I’m not intending to speak ill of any of the Lord’s anointed, but Bruce R. McConkie was my least favorite GC speaker. To a young person he was all fire and brimstone and dry as dust. Give me a genuine story teller any day. Back then Monson’s stories were all fresh and uplifting. Now I can quote them. |
LIZ, how old were you when McConkie was alive? He was actually quite a funny guy in a very dry way. I think he is someone whose reputation has morphed in the bloggernacle into something very far from what he actually was. |
The reputation McConkie left to those who never heard him speak is almost solely what he wrote in “Mormon Doctrine.” That’s not the fault of those who never heard him speak–it’s McConkie’s fault for publishing and encouraging the further publication of such a work, and it’s the fault of members of the church who kept reading and talking about the book. It doesn’t entirely tell us what kind of man he was, but, like it or not, it’s his legacy. And it hasn’t aged well. |
KLC- I was a kid. All I know is I would hear him being announced as the next speaker and I would groan inside myself. His dry humor didn’t do a thing for me. But Harmon Rector Jr. – he was the bomb. His opening smile let me know good times were ahead. |
The biggest change I am noticing is that compassion is increasing, and the harsh, fire and brimstone approach is going away, thankfully. Growing up in the 60′s and 70′s, the approach to sin was very heavy handed. I remember more than once, along with all Aaronic priesthood holders, being excused from opening exercises of priesthood meeting. This was done so an announcement could be made to the Melchizedek priesthood holders about someone who had been excommunicated. That practice stopped in the 70′s. Unfortunately, these experiences along with others, lead me to not trust the leaders. Overtime I learned that there were many good, decent leaders, but unfortunately, there were also some that were not trustworthy. (A feeling that was reinforced by my mission experiences.) However, today, even with our older leaders, I see them as much more loving and compassionate. There are still some hold outs, but things are getting better. Much better. FWIW, I never liked McConkie, and found him to be extremely boring. I remember that during and after my mission, he was the subject of many jokes. I used to consult Mormon Doctrine as a source for lessons and/or talks. I haven’t look at it in years. It’s still there on the shelf, a simple reminder that leaders can and do make mistakes. |
I agree that BRM has lost something in the translation over time. He was much more of a well-rounded person than he gets credit for now. His legacy is not limited to Mormon Doctrine, fortunately. He wrote many other books, chief among them the series on Christ, but certainly Mormon Doctrine is what he’s most remembered for. He deserves some of the condemnation he gets for the problems with that book, but the fact that it continued to be published unchanged for 20 years after his death is not his fault.
That is not the case. That song is an intentional distortion of Mormon beliefs played for humor. It is funny, but neither Mormons nor non-Mormons should be looking at as an accurate reflection of basic Mormon beliefs of any time period. |
Wow, NH, great post! I’m reading that book, too, and I keep thinking “Joanna, hon, your mother was nuts.” I was raising my kids pretty much during that time. They never watched the Osmonds. We all thought they were boring. Nobody that I know ever got her book in Mutual. Word “on the street” here in Utah was that she wasn’t a very nice person, kind of stuck up and rude in person. I remember that KAL crash and I never thought the Communists were coming. One thing that totally resonated with me is her experience with born-again Christians. They tried very hard to save me from the Mormons. I kept my own counsel. Things are so different now that I hardly remember how it used to be. I think there’s less social pressure, but that’s probably not saying much. Having all meetings in one block was pretty exciting when it happened. Well, you know, I wasn’t raised in the church. My kids were, but they didn’t enjoy it all that much. Their mom was nuts, too. |
Annegb! I must challenge you on your assertion that the Osmonds variety show was boring! It was the very best thing on tv, right after: But the Osmonds were way above: I secretly loved Donnie but I knew he was too old and would never go for me. I tried to like Jimmy but just never felt it. I wanted to be friends with Marie. She ice skated really well. |
Actually Tim I think it’s a lot your fault for being so narrow minded and unwilling to learn. |
KLC, my sister’s adoptive father and she said McConkie was incredibly when he stayed at their home. I think he earned his rep and God probably wanted to slap him when he wrote Mormon Doctrine. I think he hurt a lot of people. LIZ, how funny–different strokes :). I STILL think they’re boring! I guess my kids did, too because we never watched it. Donnie’s cute and he has a certain style, but I just yawned at their show. I got really really mad at Donahue when he had the Eyres on and showed a definite bias. You know, he ceased to be relevant after his show went off the air–Oprah’s losing her mo-jo, too. Love, LOVE Carol Burnett–does she remind you of yourself, too? Grew up a lot like her. I never watched Sonny and Cher, either. Underwhelmed there. McConkie, yeah, he knows what he did–he saw it in his life review. Hartman Rector, I really liked him also. He was terrific. |
Random thoughts: There should never be a “proper” pioneer day celebration outside of Utah. We sang “Put your shoulder to the wheel” 3 months ago. At BYU 20 years ago, a gentile was a non-Utahn. My mother is a proponent of the idea that you SHOULD NOT, under *any* circumstances, disagree with a church leader, where I’m willing to recommend changes to my children’s youth leaders. My mother still has Paul H. Dunn books around, whereas I think his talks should be scrubbed from the record. I think my generation (I’m 41) was raised in a church where “activities” were the central programming point. We might gloss over certain topics, but it was OK as long as we went to roadshow practice, scouts, seminary, and the scripture chase. Our leaders preached a “right way to do things”, and it alienated a lot of people. Now that we’re older, those of us who are still active are more willing to allow our children to skip unworthy/wasteful/irrelevant activities in favor of activities offered at school, the community, etc. (Youth basketball isn’t the automatic activity that it used to be.) My generation doesn’t donate to Friends of Scouting, and has reengineered Scouting to get one’s Eagle Scout as fast as humanly possible and then blow off the program – if it bothers with Scouting at all. My generation of members who now are YM Leaders, bishoprics, and stake leaders might not even emphasize Scouting anymore. |
I also think that my generation is much more willing to accept the notion that people progress at their own rate and believes more in the idea of personal revelation than my parents’ generation did. |
annegb – I would classify the Eyres as irrelevant, but that’s just me. I think a lot of their “advice” is reheated crap from another generation. |
I totally agree with you, queuno. I was always kind of overwhelmed by their schmaltzy enthusiasm, although I think they’re really good parents. It was the way Donahue treated them–and the others (different religions) that bothered me. It was rude and unfair. It’s kind of sad how different the church in Utah differs from outside Utah. Joanna’s experiences sounded almost foreign to me. |
I was hoping someone would elaborate on where the sudden emphasis on modesty came up. That’s among one of the few things I’m hoping to see go. Not excited to see the Proclamation be included into scripture which is inevitable (but hope it’ll eventually be taken out), and I’d like to dream that someday women will receive the priesthood–as dramatic as that sounds today. I also can’t wait until scouting is no longer church-funded, and activity girls will become a decent structure. Right now it still feels like a patched-up program made up at the last minute to address the fact 8 year old boys go to the building every Wednesday and the girls don’t. |
queno- Paul H. Dunn! I forgot about him. He wrote a book about the Osmonds that I practically memorized. I loved to listen him speak. I was shocked when the truth came out about him and especially surprised how it was officially handled. I don’t know what I expected, maybe a public acknowledgment from the pulpit that mistakes were made, but I have since learned that is not our Church’s style. I felt sorry for his wife and family. I always wondered if they were aware/supportive of his storytelling ways. It still blows my mind an admirer who idolized him was the one who accidentally found out the truth. I agree with you about the activity stuff. We did roadshows, etc. There were always things going on with Church. It was easy to stay out of trouble as a teenager because there were Friday night dances every weekend, service projects on Saturdays and Wed. night activities that were all-consuming. I drug my non-member friends to dances with me all through high school. Good times. I remember my brothers doing scouting activities, but I don’t remember much pressure to get an Eagle Scout. I think it was just the fun of the activity, no end goal. Lucky you! I am counting down til next year for my chance to sing “Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel.” I hope you rocked back and forth with the beat. It makes a difference, ya know. |
The emphasis on modesty isn’t sudden at all. Funny Brigham Young story: his favorite wife wanted her daughters to be able to wear dresses that were shorter and had shorter sleeves, so they altered their garments and got the more “modern” dresses. He kvetched “how can I get the members to follow my counsel if my own family won’t even do it?” One of the coolest changes is when they made two piece garments. Those old ones were pretty uncomfortable. |
Living in Zion, perhaps you’ll enjoy this in the meantime. |
Not excited to see the Proclamation be included into scripture which is inevitable It is not inevitable. If it were, Packer’s characterization of it as a “revelation” would have been allowed to stand. The fact that it was changed to “guide” tells me that there is opposition among the Brethren to canonizing the Proclamation. Not that there is opposition to its content, mind you. |
The Proclamation will not be scripture anytime soon, if ever. I’m kinda scandalized by the idea that some wards program their music a year ahead of time and refuse to change it. That’s a ridiculous and communistic notion in my view. |
The way I see it is eventually so many people will have it hung in their homes, so many people will have been raised knowing about it, that either it gets added into scripture or it gets lost in the shuffle–like that talk about Christ people had displayed for awhile but I’ve never heard of. Pretty sure it’s in the Personal Progress book but unless it was part of a check box I didn’t read it. |
In the MTC in the mid 80′s, I learned that Bruce R. McConkie was sometimes referred to as “Bruiser McConkie.” I thought that was interesting as both a play on “Bruce R.” and descriptive of how he sometimes came across like a sledgehammer from the pulpit. Another big change is the lessened emphasis or use of “Mircale of Forgiveness”. In the past it seemed as if every penitent received a copy in the Bishop’s office. Comparing Paul H. Dunn’s talks to McConkie’s, Elder Dunn was much easier and more fun to listen to. The actual concepts he taught don’t require the stories to be factual, just as there doesn’t have to have been a literal Job, or Jonah literally being in the belly of a whale. Elder Dunn once spoke at the weekly watchamacallit when I was at the MTC. He was humorous to the point where I thought he got a little buffoonish, but it was a refreshing change from the pompous and condescending brow-beating we normally received from the other speakers who were drawn from the MTC Branch Presidents. I hold nothing against Elder Dunn. I joined the church in the early 80′s, right before I remember President Hinckley speaking when he was the main speaker for the First Presidency, when President Kimball was not well or strong enough to speak. After I came back, I noticed how much more relaxed and confident Pres Hinckley was. |
While there are problems with Mormon Doctrine, it is still a fine resource. My sister gained her testimony by reading it through. I loved the hard bound black book with opaque white paper over the book. |
#23- John Mansfield, Thank You! That version of Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel is my new favorite! I love it. That is just the nicest thing ever. I appreciate your effort to make me happy until next year. Although, now that I have your link, it will be hard to accept the plain old church version. |
Thank Goodness you don’t hear much about The Miracle of Forgiveness anymore. That book deserves at least as much condemnation as Mormon Doctrine. Someday, the church will recognize what a travesty that book was and it will never be heard of again. |
re: 30, I agree about TMOF, but we’re a long way from that day. My bishop has multiple copies displayed in his office on a small bookshelf just below a nicely framed picture of the Saviour and next to his large candy bowl. Perhaps when our kids assume the reins of the Church, TMOF will be replaced by something like Tad McCalister’s book on the Atonement. For now, the people who grew up with that book and thinking have their turn at running the show. I have noticed an increased reliance on the CHI in decision making. During a typical ward council meeting it too often turns into a race to find out what the CHI says or, more accurately, allows about a topic instead of the council members working through an idea or issue with their own thoughts or experiences and arriving at a decision or course of action to address an issue. |
Kris, there are things in Mormon Doctrine that no one should have a testimony of–scary. I actually did the same thing, read it through when I was hungry to learn the gospel. Didn’t do me permanent harm. I believe with all my heart that Elder McConkie was called of God and served the Lord well. But he wasn’t perfect and his particular imperfections probably changed some lives in a bad way. I think President Kimball meant well with his book, but rbc is right and one sure way to tell if a bishop has, or does not have, real insight is his attachment to the miraculously guiding to repentance qualities of The Miracle of Forgiveness. It was all that was out there for a long time. There are better resources now. Paul Dunn was very popular in his day–the buffoonish quality, I didn’t notice, but most people I knew were heartened by his humorous slant on living the gospel at a time when (think Joanna Brooks) people had a huge burden of perfection which was figuratively perceived as 1000 lbs of wheat in your basement. |
You have to admire McConkie in many ways. He approached subjects that many of the brethren wouldn’t dream of addressing. He did in his own way and according to his own knowledge, which was heavily influenced by his father in law. |
Which one would have to wonder if we would have been better off if he never touched them… |
“Like” button |
Mormon Doctrine has been extensively quoted in correlated manuals over the years. However, as the manuals are being revised, the MD quotes are being removed; an example is the latest Gospel Principles. From what I’ve read, the church claims it is because the correlated manuals have to be translated into over 100 languages, but MD has not been translated in many. That seems a good reason to me. However, I also suspect that another reason, perhaps even higher in priority, is that being quoted in correlated material gave the impression that MD was correlated or officialy approved by the church. MD was neither. |