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LiZ, do you not know how to put the code in your posts that limits the amount of the post shown on the blog’s homepage? It’s a good way to keep allow readers to see more posts than just yours when they come to the homepage. You should use it. |
Sorry, MCQ. I have no idea what you are talking about. I only know one way to put up a post on this site. Sounds technical, which means it is above my pay grade. Besides, why would I want anyone to see anything other than my post? Heeeeellllloooooo……notice me, please. |
You did it in your post titled “Young Love” but not in your last two posts. Just wondered if you forgot or something. |
I did what I always do. If something different happened, I have no explanation. Meanwhile, lets get back to the good stuff. What Did You Think About The Post, Darn it?!?!? |
I thought it was long. |
Good stuff. I’ve never read Mere C but have read various CS Lewis writings. |
Newly – If this has no meaning to you now, that is a good sign you have enjoyed a good life so far. Copy it and put it away for later use when Life bites you in the butt. |
JKS – I love Mere C because each chapter is short and concise on one subject, just like you would expect a radio show to be. |
“I thought it was long.” Cracks me up. She’s right, NH, give it 20 years and re-read it. Mcq, I showed her how to fix that. I’ve been fixing them, but got behind. Somebody had to point that out to me and help me learn how to do it when I first started, also. I loved this: “After someone in Sunday School said that we shouldn’t be relying on non-Mormons like CS Lewis for our gospel insight, the scriptures contained all the truth we need, I was determined to find out more.” And this: “Now that I come to think of it, I have not exactly got a feeling of fondness or affection for myself, and I do not even always enjoy my own society. . .” I don’t know if I’d ever have the courage to give this talk, but I’m going to file it away. What am I saying? The bishop would never have the courage to ask me to speak. They’re always nervous about what I might say. |
You know what?? I really don’t care for long posts, but I loved every word of this one. I think the scriptures help us to recognize truth everywhere. I think modern day prophets and apostles and GAs reveal truth to us. I think it was very wise of you to notice and go to an author frequently quoted. I think this is a great example of being led by the Spirit. |
Whoever said that in Sunday School was dead wrong. We have always been a church to seek out truth wherever it can be found, and Joseph Smith was a perfect example of this. I have always been a fan of Lewis too. In this case, though, I think maybe he didn’t go far enough. After all we are commanded the following, in both Matthew and in 3 Nephi:
Christ really must have meant it to say it twice. I’m not saying it’s easy, and maybe some of us will not be able to acheive it in this life, but I think it requires a lot more than just wishing well for people who have wronged us. We have to bless them, we have to do good to them, and we have to pray for them. That goes well beyond wishing. |
This never struck me as too long. I thought it was very insightful. In fact I was just getting to the end when my husband walked in and I read the whole thing to him. This is exactly what I had previously decided to do with some very serious issues I have had to deal with. But I was never sure that I had forgiven. Had I forgiven if I wanted to stay out of the way of some people? What if I really didn’t like them very much? Reading this helped me realize I have forgiven because I long ago decided I will let God judge between me and thee, but in the meantime I am not going to volunteer for any more abuse. |
MCQ- Knowing CS Lewis, I am sure he more fully covers forgiveness in its entirety in one of his books. Mere Christianity is small snippets of awesomeness. Marjorie – Exactly. After reading Lewis, I am comfortable with my forgiveness process. |
I don’t think God expects us to forgive people perfectly every time right away. We are commanded to be perfect, but that doesn’t mean right now. We have to do things as and when we are able to do them. Perfection is a process, and forgiveness is too. |
The line in the scriptures about forgiving ‘seventy times seven” means, I think, that we have to keep at it until we get it right. We will fail, we will then get it, and finally we will get it right. It isn’t one wave of the magic wand. It’s process, not destination, I think. |
One of the things I think on when I’m reminded of past hurts is that Christ’s suffering paid to heal and restore me, not just to atone for the offenders who hurt me. The Atonement covers *both sides* of the offender-against-victim transaction. I can claim my side of the atonement whether the offender repents or not. If I understand correctly, there is a price, or a requirement, for the victim: the victim must accept the Atonement as payment for the offender’s crime (whether or not the offender repents) and turn the eternal punishment/consequences of the crime over to the Lord. As far as I know, this is the essence of forgiveness. On the other hand, there is a price/requirement for the offender to receive forgiveness: he must repent. So it seems unfair that the victim has to do some work (forgiving the offender) in order to be healed via the Atonement. But, that is how the Lord has ordained it. Like LIZ, I was taught a false idea of forgiveness. I was incorrectly taught that forgiveness meant pretending the crime/sin never happened, or that the crime/sin was not a “bad thing”, and that one must allow the offender the same privileges as before, which would give them the opportunity to re-offend. I really identify with LIZ because it also took me a long time to figure out the correct meanings of forgiveness. LIZ, another book along the same lines of dealing with hurts is Epictetus’ “Enchiridion”. It’s free on the Internet. There are a couple translations, and it helped me to read them in parallel. He was a roman slave, in the days of Nero, who was also one of the major “Stoic” philosophers. One of the major themes of that work is how to obtain a mindset so you don’t fret over things that you can’t control. Epictetus was semi-Christian, and in fact helped me get a better view of Christian forgiveness, and how to accept that God allows evil in the world, and how to react to it. |
In my defense, I haven’t finished reading it when I wrote the comment. Still haven’t finished reading it. I get a couple minutes per baby toy to read. It’ll take me til Sunday at this rate. But C.S Lewis did remarkable work in clearing up aspects of Christianity most who never read his work mess up. Mere Christianity, and all his other works, should be required reading in Institute. Seminary too, but don’t waste the good stuff on busy high school students. |
Here are links to free copies of Epictetus’ Enchiridion. I think ol’ Epic-T was the CS Lewis of Stoic philosophers. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/10661 http://classics.mit.edu/Epictetus/epicench.html http://librivox.org/the-enchiridion-by-epictetus-tr-elizabeth-carter/ |
Thank you for sharing this post. |
Somewhere (and I really wish I could remember where) I read that “forgiveness means giving up my right to hurt you the way you hurt me”. That felt like such a concrete way of thinking about forgiveness at a time when it was much needed, when I wanted the offender to know and feel exactly how they had hurt me. |
Thanks, Jess, I like that. Unless they repent, they will know exactly what they did and how you felt. It’s part of the life review when one dies (not the “my life passed before my eyes” thing). From what I’ve read as I’ve studied near death experiences, they feel what you’re feeling as the Lord goes over what they did wrong–and what they did right! If they do repent, Jesus has also felt it. Either way the debt has been paid. My problem is I can’t delay my gratification and often “God’s gonna get ya” isn’t very satisfying. So I imagine bad things happening until my heart softens and I can pray for them. At first, though, my prayers are along the line “Heavenly Father, could you run over them with a bus?” |
Annegb- I think I may have been guilty of praying, “May the Lord run you over with the biggest, best bus in the whole world.” |
And don’t let them be killed but break their pelvis really badly….and let the ambulance be slow. |