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What do you make of this story? Not much. I can see a bunch of stupid boys in the 1960′s cutting the hair of a boy that wore it long. That was the era of ‘girls must wear dresses at all times’, racial segregation and all kinds of other social nonsense. The family of the victim (who died years ago) has asked that the incident not be used as a political issue. I respect their wishes that their loved one not be in the public eye. It would be different for me if this incident was the beginning of a pattern of disrespect, violence, etc. This appears to be one incident from teenage hood. I prefer for myself to not be currently judged by my high school self. I was an insecure idiot and did things I will never admit to another human being. What happened in high school stays in high school. |
It makes me think of one of the chapters in Nurtureshock. That “popular” kids aren’t any more mean that regular kids….they just have more social power to actually accomplish mean or nice things. |
I think what bothers me more than the story was that he “doesn’t remember it”. He doesn’t deny it, but he doesn’t remember it either. |
This post strikes me as simply an exercise in judgmental stereotyping. You’ve decided Romney comes from a wealthy and/or powerful family and is therefore “entitled” so he’s not a person you want anything to do with. Categorizing people like that so you can easily dismiss them is intellectually lazy and socially bigoted. But feel free to confine your interactions to people who you’ve judged to be more your kind. |
I picked up yesterday’s Washington Post, where this story originated. The layout is amazing: about a third of the front page, centered right below the masthead, continuing to a double-page spread with no ads on A8-A9. The last two-thirds is a general look at Romney’s teenage Cranbrook days. The picture that comes out is consistent with five classmates remembering a shared experience that Romney does not. He was a center of attention then as now, involved with lots of people in lots of things. Each particular shared experience was more significant and memorable to those who shared it with Romney than it was to Romney. There was a report some time back where a reporter tracked down the shack of a church that’s Romney’s branch met in when he was a child. Romney was surprised when the reporter told him it was still standing, and perhaps more surprised that anyone would bother looking for it. |
I wonder if he doesn’t remember it because it was one of many incidents. JKS, you have a point. But there’s a personality type that does that kind of thing. I was on the receiving end of that meanness and I think I understand the situation intrinsically. It makes me look at Mitt differently. I’m conservative, moderate, and liberal depending. I don’t hate—or love—either candidate. I don’t think I was biased. But I am now. I can’t avoid that feeling I get when I encounter privilege without empathy. Only a few kids in my schools behaved like Mitt did with this young man. It’s not a “boys will be boys” situation. He had a choice. “Boys will be boys”—they egg cars, or toilet paper, or prank call. They moon Main Street (Bill did that!). I have regrets, starting with my little four year old self. I’ve made youthful mistakes. They haunt me. Had I done something like this, I’d A. Remember it and B. Have apologized years ago C. I wouldn’t laugh if the press called me, I’d cringe and say “I feel so bad about that–I got caught up in something awful.” I know, guys, I often react only to find I don’t know the whole story. Guess that’s how I roll. But I’m sure not crazy about Mitt Romney these days. |
jks–interesting connection Jenn–I am still open to the possibility that this story is not entirely accurate, but I do think Romney could have a more sympathetic reaction MCQ–glad to be back–thanks for the warm welcome John–I didn’t see the print edition–that sounds kind of crazy. I am certain that those in the fishbowl, whether political or otherwise, must be astounded by what other people want to know about them! annegb–we all have regrets, and maybe we’ve created a political system wherein we simply do not allow our candidates to admit mistakes. |
Sorry, ESO. I didn’t realize you had been gone. My bad. I guess my comment comes across as more harsh than I intended. My point is just that your post seems internally inconsistent. You criticize Romney for a perceived lack of empathy that ill-befits a disciple of Christ, then in the very next breath you admit to a personal bias that somehow allows you to righteously judge and dismiss people based on your evaluation of their “entitlement.” See the problem? |
Totally–I don’t feel that I am consistent and am aware of my inadequacies. I also think that there is a difference between being a private person with flaws which one may or may not be working on, and putting a flawed (and we all choose which flaws we find most egregious in other people) person in the position of being (arguably) the most powerful person in the world. I am not particularly bothered when politicians, for example, change positions: it may be as a result of growth, new information/understanding, or political compromise. THAT is something that makes some people bonkers about Romney (but really applies to anyone who has been on public record for more than a nanosecond). But when politicians (or judges or legislators or anyone with big impact) display a callousness to others, especially those who have not had the privileges many in those positions might have had, it really turns me off. Even though I don’t agree with his politics, I’d love to like him as a person, and so far, I haven’t found enough to grab onto. And yes, I have been AWOL. Missing long enough to warrant a personal phone call from Annegb! |
Glad you’re back then, and bravo to annegb for making the call. |
I don’t care about anything any candidate has done in the previous 20 years. It’s an arbitrary cutoff, but it’s my cutoff. He could have been the antichrist when he was a teen, I don’t care. |
I’m not bothered when they change their minds, either. I loved the way Santorum admitted to practical compromises. You’re right, ES0, they can’t tell the truth–it’s a kind of cannibalistic process–politics, no? |
Bullying seems part of the juvenile Mormon culture. My mission (early 80′s) seemed to have a higher percentage of bullies than I remembered from high school. I remember thinking mission life was like a pack of adolescent 1-year old dogs vying for dominance over each other in the pack. (The people who ran the MTC at that timed seemed like bullies to me too, both back then, and in retrospect. It seemed to be management by intimidation. But, perhaps that heavy-handedness was needed by so many high-spirited 19-year olds.) Most of the bully elders grew out of it, at least the ones who got converted while on their mission. I chalked it up to parents abdicating responsibility for disciplining their children to the church, as in “He’ll get sorted out on his mission. I actually met the parents of a couple of “problem elders”, and that was exactly their attitude. It also appears that various media outlets are not giving Romney’s FULL response. Romney HAS admitted to a lot of “pranks”, and has recently apologized (again) for them, even though he hasn’t acknowledged the event in question. |
What is more interesting is that the story seems to be “factually incorrect.” I don’t know what that means but one report is at: Two of the alleged bullying victims sisters make this report. Although one of them said that if the incident had happened, her brother probably would not have said anything about it. However, I assume that the sister that was living at home at the time would have noticed that her brother’s foemrly long locks had been trimmed by an amateur barber. Glenn |
Didn’t this happen like 40 or 50 years ago? I don’t know who I am voting for yet. I think that trying to judge someone’s success as POTUS by something they did when they were 16 or 17 is a tad ridiculous. It is known that Romney likes to play pranks on people and it wouldn’t surprise me if some of his pranks were pretty immature and mean at that age. I am so tired of the media trying to create a scandal when there isn’t one. |
The real problem here is George Romney. He’s the one that apparently fostered a sense of entitlement in his family, especially Mitt. What he should have done was not teach him to work and be responsible but to be a trust fund baby. Gee, ESO, you started out with a pretty good point about class and entitlement and then sabotaged it in the next breath by proudly stating your own bias and preconceptions. How do you define entitlement? Does an entitled bishop act differently than a non-entitled one? Does entitlement automatically make someone a jerk and non-entitlement make you one of the great and noble ones? Seems kind of a sweeping generalization. The Lord told Samuel he looked on a man’s heart, not his stature. I think we’d best use another yardstick than entitlement to measure a man’s worth. |
Amen, John. The most interesting thing about this story to me is the fact that everyone is calling it bullying. All that supposedly happened was that a guy got his hair trimmed with scissors involuntarily. That’s bullying? Really? In my high school that would be considered a normal Tuesday. Bullying was, and still is I think, a term that was reserved for when people got actually hurt, or at least threatened or called bad names. Simply cutting someone’s hair doesn’t really rise to that level. I remember pranks where guys had their heads completely shaved which were considered just good fun. A trim with scissors seems like a pretty mild sort of prank. |
Being held down is an invasion of one’s person, Mcq. Being held down by people who’ve mocked and ridiculed you with meanness in their hearts while they cut your hair is assault. I guarantee you if somebody did that to you while you were walking down the street, you’d be traumatized. The fact that these were stupid teenagers doesn’t negate that. It might be “good fun” (give me a break) if your FRIENDS did it to you—a bunch of jocks playing the boy game, but nobody had friendly intentions here. Based on the what I understand to be true, right now. |
“Bullying was, and still is I think, a term that was reserved for when people got actually hurt, or at least threatened or called bad names.” You are too smart to say something this dumb. Bullying is action with an intent to demean, humiliate, and destroy psyches. That’s open to the vivid imagination of people who think it’s fun to ruin other people. You don’t think they were threatening and calling him names while they disrespected (at the very least) him as a human being? |
Maybe they were, annegb, but the story doesn’t say that, as far as I know. One of the guys who went to school with Romney said he didn’t even think they cut the kid’s hair, just made him think they were. Whatever hapened, I think it would be traumatic for anyone but it seems kinda weak to be bullying. I know that the definition of bullying has become very expansive nowdays, but back then I’m sure it would have been considered pretty harmless, which is why no one apparently got disciplined for it. |
MCQ, When you forcibly cut someone’s hair and targeted them not because they are you friend but because their hairstyle doesn’t conform to your standards that isn’t a prank. It may or may not be part of a pattern of bullying. But if this occurred it is an example of using your status (popularity, position of leadership) to get others to help you physically force someone to conform. I see this as problematic. Of course I am not impressed with Obama as a teen either. I don’t think this allegeded incident should determine anyone’s vote. |
Well, of course that’s the larger point. None of us should be judged today by what we did or didn’t do in high school. I saw a lot of bullying back then that was much worse than what has been described in this story about Romney. I’m not hearing that this behavior was a pattern, and I’m guessing there are not likely to be worse stories out there about his high school behavior, but regardless of that, I don’t think it’s relevant to who Romney is today. Heaven knows I’m not a hard core republican, and I have my own problems with Romney as a candidate, but I really hate to see someone judged unjustly for behavior that is far in the past. I still think that, even if true, this story is pretty weak as an example of bullying, but I understand those who have differing views on that. At the end of the day, however, I think we all need to ask ourselves whether we would be alright with being judged by what we did on our worst day in high school. |
A couple points from the later in the Washington Post article, which most probably didn’t reach: - The time at Cranbrook was the least Mormon part of Romney’s life. - Ann Romney changed him quite quickly. Classmates found him serious and bland, not the pal they knew, just a few years later. This piece of investigation may seem like overkill, but I’d rather have more of this than less. |
Mcq, have you ever been bullied? I think that changes perspective. Maybe it wasn’t that big a deal, but I’m very put off. |
No, but then as I said, bullying to me means physical harm or at least threats or bad name-calling. That has never happened to me, and I never did that to anyone else, though I remember seeing it happen. The problem with stories like this is that it does put people off about someone, and not for any good reason. It’s so far in the past that we can’t even be sure we’re getting an accurate story, and it happened when Romney was so much younger that he was really a different person. |
Check this out as a counterpoint to the Post story: It’s written by someone you might know. |
Try this as well: http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/romney-mr-nice-guy/537521 |
I actually shared the first link on my facebook page, Mcq, it was interesting. The second does give me reason for pause. Perhaps my childhood experiences have caused me to judge many people unfairly. I will ponder. |