31 Comments | leave a comment | RSS 2.0 for this post | trackback |
My old hiking buddy got married two years ago and asked me to officiate the ceremony. It was great fun and reunited some people who hadn’t seen each other in many years. Of all my many sins, hitchin’ people is pretty far down the list of rascal things I’ve done. |
Yes! Good for you for encouraging these couples to get married. What a blessing to their children. |
Civil marriage can have religious significance in the church. For example, it is a prerequisite to baptism for many converts. When I was a Mormon missionary, I counted helping a couple to get married as one of my religious successes. Mormons officiate in civil marriages and maintain their standing in the church. It is less obvious to me that a Mormon who officiated in a same-sex marriage, who did not hold a civil office that required this as a responsibility of the office, would not find that his or her actions were questioned by local church officials. I don’t know whether or not there are members of the church who have had the experience of performing same-sex marriages and have written about their experience, but I would be curious to see what they have to say. |
My sister-in-law was married by another sister-in-law, in a mormon chapel no less. I think there’s nothing wrong with officiating at a wedding. You’re not claiming to have or use the priesthood, you’re not performing an LDS ordinance, you’re not in the temple, you’re not even pretending to be sealing the couple. Just marrying them. http://bycommonconsent.com/2007/09/22/bcc-and-why-my-wedding-made-me-like-mormons/ |
I doubt you would marry enough people to make any money off of this, but I always liked the idea of having a close friend of the couple officiate at their wedding. Makes the entire thing a little more personal and less one-size-fits-all. |
I never thought of doing this for money. That would require me to be good enough to be worthy of my hire. I was thinking free of charge, so that way their standards would be way low. Hopefully. |
In my office I deal with children who are under stress because their parents are flaky and haven’t decided to marry. Badgering flaky people to enter into a “legal instrument” sounds like a surefire way to escalate the severity of their problems, i.e., “You’re having trouble following through as it is? Well, just sign here on the dotted line and we’ll make sure the consequences are legal!” Besides, if it really is “human nature to desire commitment and stability” then nobody needs the equivalent of a rubber stamp from a self-appointed middle(wo)man. |
You are a remarkable woman, my friend. This is something I’ve never even thought about. I’d be telling them to wait, think it over, get counseling, take a few years to get to know each other. Don’t rush it. (Or in some cases, I’d be the one objecting and yelling “Run for your lives!!) |
Peter and Annegb – I left out a lot of details in my retelling of the story, you are both absolutely right. Badgering flaky people into marriage isn’t a good idea UNLESS you are able to resolve the problems that are keeping them stuck. Luckily, in my profession I am good at what I do and I helped each couple heal enough so they could freely commit. Just you know have the balance, I have also told people it would be disastrous to marry. And I begged them to not have children together. It really is all about the children. Meanwhile, what do you think about a female in-good-standing-with-the-church getting certified to perform weddings? Am I wading into choppy waters with this idea? |
When a Mormon bishop performs a marriage, he is doing it SOLELY under civil authority. There is no priesthood authority in such a wedding ceremony at all. As mentioned above, I’d shy away from performing SSM. Years ago, there was something in the CHI about the bishop should be the only one in a ward who has the state sanction to marry people. I’d also counsel against performing marriages for your business clients, as miht be seen as conflict of interest. |
Bookslinger I disagree a little with your position. In most states, in order to officiate at a wedding (presuming he is a religious minister of some sort), a person must have authority from his religious institution to do so. He or she then registers with the state or county clerk, and is approved to officiate a wedding ceremonies. Most states have fairly minimal requirments to get married (age, lack of consguinity, etc). And, the obligations of marriage are also minimal – fidelity, support and assistance. When a Bishop performs a marriage, he is still wearing two hats — that of Bishop in the Melch. PH, and also as a registered “official” of the state. If you read the ceremony in the church handbook, there are specific things a Bishop asks, and participants commit to, in the ceremony. They are over and above the basic requirements of the state. Therefore, I would say the Bishop is not doing it SOLELY under civil authority. He, similar to a temple sealer, is wearing two hats – one secular and one ecclesiastical. After all the state doesn’t care if partipants make committments before God and witnesses — only witnesses. Nor does the State care if the parties love one another, or cherish one another, etc. As for the larger question posed by the OP, I would be careful about qualifying to perform weddings. As a technical matter, certainly you can. But, marriage — any marriage — is not to be taken lightly. And, I believe the church’s position is that they are all “ordained of God.” In a lot of ways, it’s sad that just about anyone can pay a fee, get authority from the State to do marriage ceremonies. Kind of cheapens the overall status of marriage if any John or Jane Doe can perform it. You have to wonder why an officiant is needed at all. The parties might as well show up at a governmental agency, sign their names on the dotted line, and walk out the door. |
Okay. I’ll go ahead and put it out there. I am an elected official who has performed civil ceremonies for the last 15 years. I have also served as Bishop for the last 4 years. Luckily, I haven’t had to marry any one in my ward as “Bishop” as they’ve been sealed in the temple or, because of various circumstances, been married by the Stake President. I have averaged 150 wedding ceremonies a year for 15 years. That is a lot of ceremonies, and they range from simple ceremonies in my office to full pomp and march down the aisle. I researched the roles of judges versus Bishops versus Sealers as part of an ongoing issue I’m studying that I won’t get into here. Suffice it to say there is a whole lot more to this marriage ceremony stuff than meets the eye. I live in a state where SSM is not legal. I have made a decision that if it does become legal, then as a civil, elected judge, I will perform the ceremony if necessary. One of the biggest challenges to SSM is that religious clergy must get state/county approval to perform wedding ceremonies. There is an argument to be made that if clergy are “acting on behalf of the state”, then if SSM is legalized, they, too, MUST perform SSM as requested. In other words, it you want to walk and talk and perform civil ceremonies on behalf of the State, then you must be willing to act on the State in all circumstances. If, on the other hand, you strictly want to wear a religious hat, then don’t bother registering with the State to do state weddings. In many foreign countries, this is the case. Couples get married strictly civilly because religious leaders of non-State approved religions (think Italy and Catholics) can’t act on behalf of the state. That is why sometimes couples get married civilly, then travel immediately to the temple to get sealed. In those countries, the Sealer isn’t wearing two hats. He is strictly performing a ceremony that is religious in nature. Anyway, it’s a complicated thing. I can identify with the couples and children issue. I can’t tell you how many couples I marry and they already have 2 or 3 kids betweeen them. Sometimes I’ll ask why they decided to make it “legal.” Other times it’s polite to just do the ceremony. I personally think a woman is crazy to have children with a man outside of wedlock. She leaves herself, and her children, very vulnerable, despite the laws on the books that relate to parental responsibilities. Yet, it seems to be “in vogue.” Very sad commentary on the state of marriage in the good ol’ USA. |
Am I wading into choppy waters with this idea? I don’t have problem with it, but I live in a jurisdiction in which a civil marriage is the only marriage (religious ceremonies can be performed, of course, but they don’t count as marriages) and mine was performed by a woman. I don’t feel any less married because of those circumstances, but I can see where local expectations would vary. |
I was surprised that your husband was surprise. For me, this isn’t even a question. Of course it’s fine. Why not? |
I don’t see what being female has to do with it. Male vs. female makes no difference in this context. |
Annegb- It was one thing for Rob to consider a non-Bishop Mormon man marrying people. It was another for him to consider a woman doing it. It might be our age playing into the scandelous-ness of this idea. If I do get internet certified to do Iowa weddings, I just don’t wanna run into problems with my local church leaders. On the other hand, I refuse to directly ask them for permission/approval because that just rubs me wrong. My policy is to never ask permission to do anything. I can always apologize after the fact. But seriously, would you have a problem with a card-carrying mormon sister marrying people? |
I recently attended a self-uniting wedding where the couple married each other without an officiant. Legal here in PA thanks to our state’s Quaker heritage. And it was a lovely occasion. |
My problem is I forget that I was going to get forgiveness not permission. But this prospect is going to make me smile a lot whenever I think about it. Phoung, sounds good. I’d still say “run for your life”. Probably. |
I find it strange that you would even wonder if performing civil marriages could somehow be putting you “in choppy waters”. It’s a civil marriage. It has nothing to do with priesthood authority or lack thereof. It has nothing to do with gender. I’m sure there are thousands of LDS women who have performed marriages as civil authorities. Why would you ask “permission” from a church leader? Unless you’re wanting to use an LDS church, I don’t understand what involvement you think they should have. |
Tent Dweller: Here’s my reasoning for saying that the Bishop is not using any priesthood authority in performing a wedding. Simply, there is no _ordinance_ of marriage in the LDS church outside of the temple. If it’s not an _ordinance_, then it’s not done with priesthood authority. (Of course, anything done on church property needs to be done with _permission_ of the church, but that is not the same as officiating or conducting something with priesthood authority.) I still avow that the Bishop is wearing only his CIVIL hat when performing a civil ceremony. Of course, he should comply with church policy, and whatever is written in the CHI. If the church, by policy, wants a husband and wife to promise “A”, “B”, and “C” in any ceremony done by a bishop, that’s fine. (The church is allowed to have policies, and I generally support church policies, with the exception being where church authorities themselves make exceptions.) A promise is a promise. There should be promises in a marriage. But it’s not an _ordinance_. The church could easily change its policy and come up with any sort of list of members who may perform weddings in the chapel. The bishop woudld be doing the ceremony in the name of the church, as a representative of the church. Many people who don’t have temple recommends may still wish a “church wedding” that is performed by a minister so they can say that “got married in church.” And in such as case, again, the church would rightly have policies in place for ceremonies that Bishops do in the name of the church. But “in the name of the church” does not equate to “by the authority of the Melch. Priesthood.” As a judge, how much do you charge for officiating wedding ceremonies? I ask so LIZ can make an estimate of how much she could charge. |
#17 -Phouchg – Huh. I have never heard of self-united weddings. Thanks for the link. I will pass that on to several friends who live in Colorado. They might use that instead of planning a wedding. I don’t care what they do, just get legal. #11&12- I dwell in a tent – thanks for your comments. I really like it when actual professionals add to the conversation. It adds an extra layer of knowledge. |
#15 is probably one of the most brilliant things ever to come out of my mouth. Sometimes I’m stunned and amazed at my wisdom. So stunned I barely remember even saying it. If an off-the-wall kind of Mormon guy started performing civil marriages, including gay marriage, I don’t think he’d be censured as much as an off-the-wall kind of Mormon women. But he’d encounter some negative responses. Gay marriage isn’t legal here, so that’s a non-issue. But if a Mormon performed a civil marriage betweeen gay persons in states where it’s legal, I imagine the leadership would shit a brick. Which is why I’m enjoying the thought of LIZ doing it. Again, you go, girl. :). (This is really me) |
Bookslinger – we’ll agree to disagree. I know a PH marriage is not a “saving ordinance.” Of course, neither is receiving a patriarchal blessing or being named/blessed as a child. The old handbook used to say the couples were making promises before “God, angels and witnesses.” The new handbook just says “God and these witnesses.” But, the reason I say the Bishop is wearing two hats is because not just any PH holder can perform marriages — essentially Bishops, Stake Presidents and Mission Presidents. Is it a PH ordinance? Sort of. Elder Holland says covenants are between people and God. Read the church ceremony – the man and woman covenant with God to cleave unto and love one another. They don’t make those promises to each other. Handbook also says “… in harmony with the sacredness of the marriage covenants.” With the Bishop administering the questions, that leans me on the side of saying this is more than just a civil ceremony. Plus, he closes by saying “…by the legal authority vested in me as an elder of the Church…..” When I do a wedding for the state, I don’t technically have to do anything other than ascertain whether the parties consent to be married. The state law expressly says what legal obligations the parties owe one another, as well as what rights they have. I think the verbage used in a PH ceremony goes much further and beyond what state law requires. Therefore, when a Bishop marries a couple, they not only make basic state expressed promises, they are also covenanting with God. Sorry for the digression and threadjack. If Living In Zion wants to perform wedding ceremonies, more power to her. I would just encourage her to spend some time getting to know the laws in her state that address marriage, and understand fully the obligations imposed on parties that get married. I have 200 pages of thoughts on plural sealings, a topic for another day. I’ll reiterate. I think all heterosexual marriages are “ordained of God” as set forth in the Proclamation. I know church leaders would disagree, but in light of the conflict over SSM, I would almost rather see state sanctioned marriage go away completely and leave it to the religious institutions to handle the marital affairs. |
The bishop is the only one in the ward who can marry people as an official of the church. Not everything the bishop does is a priesthood ordinance. Just because the bishop is assigned this responsibiity doesn’t mean it is the priesthood. Stacking chairs isn’t an official priesthood ordinance but ph holders are assigned to do it. |
Atheists are people, too! Why should atheists have to get married in a church? |
“I’m sure there are thousands of LDS women who have performed marriages as civil authorities.” There’s no way to prove it, obviously, but I’d take that bet. Thousands? Maybe dozens or a hundred or so. But thousands? |
jks wrote, “However, being married by your bishop has the added benefit of being part of your church, your congregation, being free, etc. and there is an appropriate reference to God in the ceremony that most Mormons would feel comfortable with. ” Unless you’re sealed in the temple, most wards/congregations wouldn’t consider your marriage to make you any more part of the congregation, with the exception that you get the sin part out of the way. If you’re not getting married in the temple, then you might as well be married by someone you’re comfortable and familiar with, and give them whatever text makes you comfortable (even complete with scripture). In my perfect world, though, you would have to be married by the State and then the church can do with you what they wish when it comes to getting sealed. I see no benefit to the Church to allowing bishops or stake presidents or GAs to actually “marry”. |
There’s a good sociological benefit, though, queuno. There is power in conforming to the norms and mores of the society in which we live. |
Agreed, annegb. But unless you’re marrying in the temple, most LDS wards won’t consider you conforming to the norms and mores. |
True. |
Nice article, I say go for it and do what you want to do. Marrying people can’t be bad in anyway and I think its great that you are so open minded to marrying people even of the same sex. Congratulations to you and your open mindedness I hope it takes you far. |