Love this! i am a big fan of girl’s camp. we also do it with very hot, 100% humidity. i am not a fan of themes or productions. i deal. we go next week. good job dodging the bullet.

I’ve noticed the intention of making every youth activity a life changing experience in my ward and stake. Why can’t we just go out and have some fun together?

KLC, part of the answer may be the popular idea that only a really good meeting (or activity) is better than no meeting (or activity) at all. If the saints’ time is immensely valuable, not to be squandered on trifles like just having a bit of fun, which they could do on their own with their families or friends if they wanted fun, then only life-changing experiences can justify gathering people together.

Ron, our camp in later years took it a step further: unless you are essentially IN your sleeping bag, you must be wearing shoes with socks. No sandals or slippers.

Ugh, the stories I could tell about Girls Camp. Like vomiting from heat stroke and the nurse telling me she was too busy with arts and crafts to help me, having my period come as a shy 12 year old, evacuating halfway thru the week from a severe thunderstorm on the way, the 8-month pregnant leader who wanted to have her baby at camp just like the pioneers.

It was ALL confusing and traumatizing. Oh, and our camp was called “Liahona” with it’s own Indian myth and SONG that we all learned about the blond-haired blue-eyed Indian girl Liahona. This was in Texas.

I think you are a very smart woman. My girls are only 7 and 4 and I dread being asked to help with Girls Camp when they are older.

In my callings I simplify, simplify, simplify. I was Primary counselor and in charge of a Christmas presentation for the ward party. The Primary chorister, yes, chorister, was a busybody woman who had to go all out on everything. I wanted scripture recitations with lovely Christmas music. She wanted an all out production. She talked me into it after a long battle by saying she WOULD DO ALL THE WORK. So I went on an overseas trip to Japan over the Thanksgiving holidays. When I got back she called to say she had cut her hand on Thanksgiving and couldn’t type up the reams of scripts required. This was in the days of typewriters, mind you. All I remember is sitting all day at the typewriter fighting serious jet lag while cussing her. She actually admitted later that she wanted the praise from presenting a complicated production. I could tell more stories about her. Bless her heart.

Oh yeah, jendoop! I forgot about the overwrought camp testimony meetings! My. Goodness. Those meetings sure brought out the crazy in the girls and some of the adults. I like your idea of a ward testimony meeting instead of a 3 hour marathon of emotionality verging on hysterics.

I couldn’t figure out how to add in my story of another year at girls camp that we had an emotionally disturbed girl hitting on a clueless Priesthood leader. He thought her constantly needing blessings, conversation, overly dramatic helplessness was just an opportunity for him to serve. He was horrified when I informed him that this particular girl had previously reported her hometeacher, bishop, school teacher and YM leader to have made sexual advances toward her. After he thought about the possible repercussions if she made such allegations against him, he demanded a meeting with the Stake Presidency and a new strict policy was instituted about having the Priesthood at camp being at least 3 deep at all times. He was also furious at me because I didn’t warn him about her before camp. (In my defense, she wasn’t in my ward and it took me a couple of days to put two and two together. He’s just lucky I caught on in time.)

Unless you’re a close (and by close I mean might as well be blood) family friend, I do not go all out for anybody.

My wife has been camp cook for almost 25 years. She took off 3 years while she served as a counselor in the stake YW Presidency. I’ve never heard of the “extreme” girls camps that are mentioned in the comments. All I can say is that at least, for once, we men can’t be blamed for the girls camp drama. Sounds like this craziness is planned and carried out by the femaile leaders themselves.

YvonneS, John’s explanation is a remarkably charitable one that may explain some situations but Kris’ comment, “She actually admitted later that she wanted the praise from presenting a complicated production” seems closer to reality in my experience.

A few years ago when everybody was gung ho on building a handcart and re-enacting a handcart journey, I said, “are you kidding? My ancestors did that so I wouldn’t have to.” It didn’t sound fun to me one single bit. But some people actually did enjoy themselves. Not the little kid who thought his mother really died, though.

Our ward does “high adventures”. The YM do one almost every year. and the YW have done one. The YW made a bicycle trip from Indianapolis to the Louisville Temple with an overnight camping stop in between.

One year the YM did a 4 day bike trip from Indianapolis to the Nauvoo temple.
They had most of the adults in chase cars, and camped on the way. In both cases, everyone rode in cars on the way back.

Last year the YM did a 4 day rugged hike in the upper peninsula of Michigan.

I think the main thrust of this ward is the youth program, young men and young women. Those programs seem to get the highest priorities and resources. And I think that is how it should be. If the church loses a generation, it dies.

#24 continued-
Now that I’m on a roll, there’s more.

I personally know of a small branch in the rural midwest with 4 young men and 2 young women. The boys, under the guise of Boy Scouts/High Adventures took a two week trip (no lie) to the Bahamas. The two dads that went with the boys were doctors/parents that majorly financed the trip. Since it was an official BSA activity, the boys got merit badges for scuba diving, sailing, fishing, etc. etc.
The two girls, who were sisters from a single parent home, went to girls camp at a local pond.
Ticks me off.

The men of our ward take a four day long fishing trip down the Colorado River. It’s a big deal. Steaks, boats, stake president speaking. The men love it and many inactive and non-Mormon men have gone. I loved having Bill gone for four days. Some women in our ward were pretty mad, though. It was expensive.

They didn’t do it this year and I told Bill it wasn’t happening even if they did (getting rid of him notwithstanding) because our money was going elsewhere.

Send me some sleep balm.

And one more comment on perceived inequities between the YW and the YM programs. Handbook clearly says all things, including girls camp, scout camp and one high adventure, are to be funded through the ward budget. If ward funds are insufficient, fund raising may be employed. Above all, no one should be excluded for lack of funding. (That is, worse case, use fast offering funds to pay a YM or YW’s money if needed.) As someone who’s been involved with the ward budgets for about 20 years, there has never been a year in my ward where the YW and YM budget was not equal. There is never enough money in a ward budget to fund scout camp ($255 per boy this year). The scouts in our ward have always paid for scout camp through a combination of personal funds and fund raising. And the girls, for girls camp, do the exact same thing. When we’ve had a high adventure, the boys and/or their families have paid the money and/or fund raised. So, the regular, ordinary day to day budgets of the YW and YM programs are the same. In fact, if anything, the YW tend to spend their budget money, while the YM don’t tend to spend theirs at all. I also was involved at the stake level in YM and YW, as was my wife. The stake YW always had twice the budget the YM had. Girls camp was heavily subsidized by the stake. I never complained, because technically, scout camp was subsidized by the church through its support of BSA. However, the girls camp price for my daughters? Between $50 – $75. The cost for my boys to go to scout camp? $150 – $250. Obviously, every ward budget is going to differ depending on number of youth. I divide the budget up on a ‘per capita’ basis, so that if there are 10 girls in YW and 5 boys in YM, the girls get twice the budget. Anyway, I’ve read too many posts by people who perceive money being spent on girls versus boys as some kind of favoritism. If you’ve ever been on a ward council, you’ve had access to the budget. The figures are there for all orginzations to see. I’ve never heard of a Bishop keeping a ward budget “secret.” And I can’t imagine a YW president not openly questioning the Bishop if her budget was significantly different than that of the YM. When YM do a high adventure, it’s almost always the result of a healthy chunk of fund raising effort. (The exception being the occasional Sugar Daddies reflected in the Bahamas trip.) I’ve never seen priesthood leaders in my area turn down a request for the girls to do a high adventure. Like my last post says, the request can’t be turned down because YW leaders haven’t proactively made the effort to make it happen. I won’t say PH leaders have ever not approved of such trips, but in my experience, that simply isn’t the case. A YW leader may make excuses why the girls don’t get to go camping or do other “fun” stuff, but in all likelihood, it is not because they couldn’t get permission. It’s because the YW leaders are not willing to make the activity happen. The YW in my ward are going camping in 2 weeks. Who planned all the logistics of the trip? Me. Not the YW leaders. Ordinarily, I would have made them sit down with me and go over the details, but because of summer time and vacations, everyone has been busy. Still, the trip had to be planned, and the majority of the effort has fallen on me. I’m not complaining, just reiterating that for whatever reason, often YW leaders haven’t personally been involved with outdoor activities enough to be comfortable planning them, the same way I would find it difficult to plan a baby shower. But at least, in this instance, the YW leaders did approach me and have enough desire to commit to going. But even as we started off with all three members of the YW presidency committing to go, we’re down to one. And that’s been my experience in the past. YW leaders get the girls pumped up about doing something, but then they fizzle out. I’ve even had cases where the trip was planned and the girls themselves fizzled out once they thought hard about lack of restroom facilities and living conditions they would would be facing. (This trip, I’ve actually spent personal funds to buy a privy and portapotty!) So, I don’t think it’s fair to assume that in all cases where the boys get to do “fun stuff” and girls “never get to do anything” there is some institutional bias. I believe it has, and always will be, a function of personalities and leadership.

Or someone should realize that RS plans almost all of the ward activities and service projects. Best to instead ask for EQ and HP to step up to the plate.

Liz: I’m not sure if you were inferring that my ward’s funding and camping was unequal, or if it merely reminded of inequality in your wards.

Our ward’s YW did do an out-of-town overnight camp on the bike trip to the Louisville KY temple.

And, when the Stake had a combined YM/YW handcart trek, there was even a co-ed camp. The YW/YM were assigned into “families” with married couples playing “pa” and “ma”.

Apparently, there are some handcarts owned by the church at the “regional” (multi-stake) level around here, and various stakes can borrow them for treks. If I remember correctly, this was a 2, maybe a 3, day trek. It was a big-big thing, totally equal for boys and girls. They even had a stake-level fireside for adults, to show everyone the slides, and tell the stories. Of course it rained, and there was a huge mud bog, up hill, took a wrong turn and went extra miles, etc, etc.

I’m in a relatively affluent ward, and I’m led to believe that whatever the YW want to do, to be “equivalent” to the YM outings, they get the necessary funding.

And I also believe you when you say you’ve been in wards were things were not so equal or equivalent.

NH, the RS has never solely planned nor funded almost all of the ward activities and service projects in my current ward or in any ward I’ve lived in.

I love you annegb. I would have paid money to see Mrs. Ice Cream in the act. I love the idea of an ice cream bar, but you just pointed out the obvious problem, custom orders.

I just realized that my comment sounded very bitter. I really did enjoy YW. I had great leaders and a good ward. The inequality of activities always bothered me. I was just trying to make the point that I think it’s mostly a case of leaders as opposed to wards denying opportunities. As the RS pres in my singles ward a few years back, we planned tons of fun things for RS activities and were never turned down, (no quilt tying) and we had a much larger budget than the EQ.

I don’t think you sounded bitter, Natsy. It’s an issue.

I don’t want to go trap-shooting…..I want to go to a spa for a week.

Annegb – I suggested a Spa, Relaxation week for girls camp one year. I was willing to line up a bunch of people to teach Deep Breathing, Basic Massage, Aromatherapy, Yoga, etc. I can’t remember exactly anymore what the reasoning was, but I was shot down. I think it was the concern I would be introducing non-gospel themes (translation: Yoga is a spiritual practice in some countries). I retorted with, “Yeah, having young people on anti-anxiety meds is the American way to deal with stress.” No wonder I wasn’t on that camp committee very long.