28 Comments | leave a comment | RSS 2.0 for this post | trackback |
I’m on the my Stake President is a uninspired, ineffective turd position on the continuum. |
Age and health impact your continuim, too, Devyn. I, like many of my friends, don’t have the energy and strength I used to have when I was very active. It’s true I’m disenchanted with what I perceive to be chauvinism and hypocrisy, but if I felt good, I’d be a lot more active. |
I’m in the “everyone my age is at a different place in life so I attend once (or twice) a month to ensure my own well being isn’t threatened” position. |
NH – what does my own well being isnt threatened mean? My own view is similar to yours – 1-2x a month to make sure the kids stay in touch. |
I don’t equate activity with sacrament meeting attendance. |
I was told by my Bishop that if you show up to Sacrament 2 Sundays a month and pay your Tithing then your considered “Active”. I honestly dont know where I sit in that Continuum Devyn. I’m a convert of 20 yrs and a return missionary. There are some things about the Church that bother me but not enough to abandon my Faith and membership. I look at those things and ask myself are they really important to MY salvation or can they just be skipped over and ignored? I’m not the kind of member that gets up and weepingly bares my testimony. I’m no the kind of person that takes callings in blind faith cause the Bishop asked me to. I pray about them myself before I say yes and I sometimes say know which usually gets me a lecture on why I’m wrong to do that. Church leaders are human too and We humans make mistakes….. |
Well, then what is the main signifier of “activity” to you annegb? For myself, I feel like something is wrong in my life if I don’t attend at least sacrament meeting every week. I enjoy the other meetings too, and attend them most weeks, but sacrament meeting is the most important meeting of the three by far and if I’m not in attendance, there is usually a very good reason why. I try to attend even on vacation, because if I don’t, I’m not myself the rest of the week. There’s something missing. But I don’t think that kind of “activity” is the kind Devyn is talking about here anyway. I’m not sure how helpful the continuum idea is. It seems to indicate that the center is a place where you don’t do too much study or too little. Is that right? I’s an indication of moving from the safe center if you study a lot of gospel-related materials? And you are about to leave the church because of that? I disagree completely. There are plenty of people who study an enormous amount of gospel materials and yet have firm testimonies and attend church regularly and perform their callings with dedication. Study is not the problem. The question is your closeness to the Spirit of God. If your study is in that context, and you use that Spirit to pursue truth and understanding while you study, then there’s very little you could study that could cause you to feel a decrease in faith. BTW, Devyn, as a parent of kids who are reaching adulthood, I can tell with absolute certainty that 1-2 times a month at church is not going to keep them in touch very long. You’re deluding yourself. |
I treat the Sunday block like an AA meeting for the sinner. It’s boring, pointless, and even irritating to me almost all of the time, but somehow, and nobody knows why, it seems to help keep me way more righteous (read: sober) than if I blew it off. I persist in going back virtually every week for the whole three hours, even though I thoroughly dislike it. I am convinced that it is very important to my life that I do so. Ultimately it keeps me from smacking my wife around, driving drunk over innocent pedestrians, and robbing gas stations, i.e., being the natural man. It is genuinely miraculous in that cause and effect seem unrelated. I suppose it is connected somehow with the Atonement, but I couldn’t start to articulate it. I remain almost obsessed by the gospel and grapple with it almost continuously. I could not be less interested in the church. (Hat tip to David Foster Wallace) |
Devyn, shortly after the 6 week break of having my child my husband and I attended every week. Within 3 weeks of faithful attendance I noticed my worrisome about parenting quadrupled to unrealistic expectations. The environment was not good for me and after my husband noticed the effect it was having on my confidence we decided to aim for once a month. Reducing the exposure so to speak has helped me tremendously to know I’m well equipped to deal with my kid, and I no longer sit awake at night wondering if by reading “Are You Ticklish” verses Exodus I’m setting her up for spiritual failure. Plus, it makes it a whole lot easier to deal with ward quirks when I know I won’t be seeing them for another 3 weeks. |
I’m kind of with MCQ in that I don’t quite understand Devyn’s definition of his spectrum. I wouldn’t have defined the model or spectrum that way. Maybe Devyn is defining more of a 2 dimensional space than a single dimension. My name is still not on the membership rolls, but nowadays I’m at church about 46 Sundays out of the 52 per year. I miss a Sunday about every other month. Some years it has been 50/52, and others 40/52. When I go, I go for all 3 hours, even when I’m out of town. Though I alternate her-church/my-church when I’m visiting mom. (Smelling the coffee pot brewing in their Sunday School classroom seemed almost sinful.) Fast and Testimony meeting is both my favorite and least favorite sacrament. Seven to ten year old kids who write out their testimony (on their own) and get up and read it on their own are among my favorite. Four times over the last few years, once while visiting another ward in another state, the Holy Ghost kicked my butt to get up to the pulpit on F&T Sunday. Our High Councilor speakers, with a couple exceptions, have generally been less interesting. We have good youth speakers in our ward. Sisters giving talks in Sacrament meeting generally do a better job speaking, speaking with the Spirit, and keeping my interest than the men. We’ve had sisters give opening prayers, and give closing prayers. I think I remember a few times when sisters gave both opening and closing prayers. Our Stake President sometimes speaks in Sac meeting. He.is.inspired. I love Saturday night adult sessions of Stake Conference. It seems like that’s when the leadership lets their hair down and tells it like it is, especially visiting General or Area Authorities. And they can use a little levity or humor since it isn’t the Sabbath or a Sacrament meeting. It’s also a good cross-ward socializing opportunity to mill about before and after. I don’t have a ward-level calling, but I have two stake-level callings. I know that’s weird, but I decided it’s best to not argue with the Stake President. They’re called “assignments” actually, not official callings. So yes, there are certain things that ex’s or non’s can still do. I go to EQ functions (one picnic a year), ward Christmas dinner, ward linger-longer dinner (they have one every other year), and help people move in/out of the ward if I’m available. I used to go to a Singles FHE almost every week, but now go once a month to a different one. To put it succinctly, I drank the Mormon Kool-Aid. The Gospel is true, and the foundational claims of the church are true. God, Christ, Atonement, Joseph Smith, Book of Mormon, Priesthood, Brigham Young through Thomas Monson, it’s all true. I know it. I can’t UN-know it. (I tried, and can only hold the thought for a fraction of a second before realizing I would only be lieing to myself.) That knowledge condemns me because I don’t live up to it. But I’ve learned the hard way that doing what measely bits I can is better than trying to ignore it completely and go in the opposite direction. If you can’t do it all, do what you can. If you can’t drink it all, drink in what you can. |
Not to shoot Devyn’s post down, but we already have a continuum as illustrated in Lehi’s Vision of the Tree of Life, do we not? Everyone is represented one way or another. Those reasons for leaving-the-iron-rod or dropping-the-fruit-in-shame cover pretty much everything, modern and ancient. |
Oooh, Tiger nails it. |
Well, Mcq, I didn’t attend Sacrament meeting much for three years because I worked on most Sundays. But, I still had a testimony, I paid my tithing, obeyed the Word of Wisdom, prayed and studied the scriptures daily, had callings and did my visiting teaching religiously. :) I FELT perfectly active and was surprised when a friend made a face when I said I was active. I bet you a lot of people who never missed Sacrament couldn’t say they did all the things I did to serve the Lord and honor my beliefs. Hell, if all I had to do is go to church on Sundays, my life would be gravy. |
And I have friends, who are in my older generation, who struggle with illness and other limitations who still consider themselves active. Focusing on who goes to church is looking at appearance. Which God, thank Him, isn’t so worried about. |
Jim, how can you be “obsessed” and “not less interested” at the same time? I realized the other day that my place in the ward continuum (what a weirdly spelled word) is that of the little old lady that people don’t expect much of…..which made me kind of sad because I kick butt at serving. But it also made me kind of delighted to think of the young women in our ward who are stepping up. |
PS Do Catholics, Presbyterians, Methodists categorize each other as active or inactive? |
Anne, According to my Best Friend who is Methodists and another friend who is Caholic. NO |
Anne, the gospel (atonement, ethics, scriptures, spiritual content) interests me, the church (organization, programs, activities, “policies,” culture, etc.) does not. I don’t find them the same thing at all. Sorry I was unclear. |
That’s because none of them would meet the definition. In most protestant or catholic congregations you are A OK with the priest or minister as long as you contribute money to the church. Attendance is optional. There are no such things as callings in most other denominations, so contributions and attendance are the only things they have to tell who is considered a member. annegb, I wasn’t talking about situations where people can’t attend for whatever reason. If that is the case, of course you would have to make sure you stayed active in other ways. But those other ways are things you should be doing whether you attend or not, and people who attend regularly are statistically much more likely to be doing those things than people who do not attend. Again, that does not include people who can’t attend. |
You’re right, I guess. I was just reminded of my friend’s scoffing when I said I was active. I’m going to slap her tomorrow. |
I don’t really fit into this continuum well either. I’m certainly not on the passive side, and I’m certainly far enough away from center that most people in my boat aren’t interested in being a part of the church. But I feel content where I am in my church activity, and I don’t feel myself drifting away. Maybe that could change in the future, but for now, I’m a comfortably heterodox active member. |
7. MCQ – I didn’t mean to infer those in the center don’t study, but they tend to be content with the history of the Church. Perhaps the continuum is too simple, but it works for me as I look at how I shift back and forth in my activity and belief. “The question is your closeness to the Spirit of God. If your study is in that context, and you use that Spirit to pursue truth and understanding while you study, then there’s very little you could study that could cause you to feel a decrease in faith.” I disagree with this, there are a lot of things one can study and read that will decrease your faith. For example, the huge gulf between what the Church teaches as our sanitized history vs the reality of that history. I may be deluding myself on the attendance, but it is the best I can do in my current state… |
10. Bookslinger – you are probably the most active non-Member there is then. I agree with your view that “If you can’t do it all, do what you can. If you can’t drink it all, drink in what you can.” Precisely what I do right now |
11. Tiger – good point, although I am not sure I agree with the negatives associated with not holding fast to the Iron Rod – it forces all down the same path which does not make sense to me. 21. Trevor – I was certainly in your boat “comfortably heterodox active member.” However, I do find myself drifting occassionally – well taking breaks… |
Devyn, I recall Jana Reiss talking about “taking a sabbatical” from church for a year. Apparently the concept is taboo in Mormon circles :D I find that full attendance can be spiritually depleting at times. It depends greatly on the ward, type lessons, the teachers, your local friends in the ward, etc. |
I am very much an all-or-nothing type of person. So, when I returned to activity after several years away from the church, I knew I would be an every-Sunday Mormon or completely inactive. I did have a time a few years back, though, when I asked to be released from the Primary Presidency in my ward (hence the handle here on MM). My relationship with the Primary President was antagonistic (to say the least) and every Sunday felt like running a marathon. I felt completely depleted–spiritually, physically, and emotionally–every Sunday. So I took a step back. Funny enough, the Bishop at the time was very concerned that if I was released from my calling that I would “go inactive.” I explained as nicely as possible that if I wasn’t released I would definitely go inactive! For me, the partial Sunday activity would very likely lead to complete inactivity. So I go every Sunday for the full 3 hours, serve in callings as I’m asked (unless I feel they’re completely wrong which has only happened once), and try to keep up with all the lessons/classes and attend ward and RS activities as they occur. I don’t think this qualifies me for the Celestial Kingdom, but it does help me stay on the right path! |
25 – Trevor – Sabbatical – hmm, that is what I will call it. 26 – PPP – I am not that type of person but I know those who are. Glad it is working for you now |
I tried attending occasionally when I was in college and just never felt good about it. Just before full inactivity, I would attend for sacrament meeting and then try to sneak out the back before anyone noticed me. It didn’t work for me and felt rather disingenuous. It’s probably because I was raised LDS and my parents were converts, but knowing the expectation of being an “active” member makes it hard for me to be anything less unless I’m abandoning the church all together. I must confess, however, that I will take one vacation from church each year and I never attend General Conference anywhere but in my PJs on my couch. I’m only so hard-core! |