“How do you explain garments”

I like the wedding ring analogy. We wear a wedding ring to help us remember the covenants we have made with our spouse. Covenants that, if we remember and live them, will serve as a protection for our family and marriage. In this sense, wearing a wedding ring both reminds us of our covenants for marriage and therefore serves as a protection for our marriage.

The LDS Garment is very similar. It helps us to remember the covenants we have made with the Lord. Covenants that will protect us and in this way the garments serves as something to help us remember our covenants and therefore be a protection to us as well.

I’ve never tried to explain my garments. Nobody has ever said anything. I forget everybody doesn’t wear them.

#3 annegb – “I forget everybody doesn’t wear them.”

I’ve heard that in Utah, garments are really no big deal just because of the population. But even living in New England, I also occasionally forget that not all adults wear garments. I’m regularly embarrassed by my father-in-law who wears very short shorts and doesn’t seem to realize that those sitting across from him can see his tighty whiteys when he crosses his legs. With garment-wearing parents, I never see my dad in anything shorter than his knees unless we’re swimming (and even then his swim shorts are pretty long).

Although it wasn’t the subject of your post, I was thinking partly of temple robes as well as garments when I made the comparison with academic regalia. It is true that academic clothing, a wedding dress, or a black belt are (unlike garments) only worn on particular occasions. Still, I think the symbolism of such clothing does offer a useful parallel for explaining garments. One can come up with examples of symbolic clothing or jewelry that is worn on a daily or continuous basis (e.g, judicial robes, wedding rings, uniforms) that could be used as a parallel to garments being worn constantly. If we want to compare them with other symbols not publicly visible, then we might think of lockets or tattoos that have symbolic meaning, but that are kept hidden under clothing, perhaps because of their private importance.

I found that if people ask to talk about my underwear, I then ask them about theirs. It usually stops the conversation right there. I had someone ask to see them once. I asked to see theirs and they got the point…

Rarely does anyone ask me about my magic underwear. When they do, I just keep it simple and say it’s special clothing that helps me to remember my covenants with God and to be a better Christian. I am careful not to bring attention to my garments, and as a man, that is pretty easy to do. With my crew top garment, I am no different than other men who wear a white t-shirt under their tops with the collar open. (Some men wear a white tank top that is clearly identifiable under their shirt and I have no idea what purpose that serves…) However, I am aversive to wearing those “smiley face” garment tops because I think they’re are a definite distraction, particularly under white dress shirts. It’s good to have garment-style options.

I found that if people ask to talk about my underwear, I then ask them about theirs. It usually stops the conversation right there.

Yes, I’m sure that would stop the conversation. But if I asked a Muslim woman about her hijab (assuming I asked respectfully), I would hope she would understand a basic curiosity about her traditions and faith. Just today in the Pediatrician’s office I was sitting next to a woman in a full burqa including a face veil and gloves. She didn’t speak English (I tried to tell her that her baby girl was cute), but I would love to ask a Muslim woman about her clothing choices related to her faith and would hope for a kind response.

I know for us it’s underwear which seems impolite to discuss in public, but as I said in another reply, I think we owe it to our selves and our faith to come up with an honest and respectful way to respond to others’ curiosity.

In some hot climates the crew neck style garments are just too hot. I wear the mesh fabric with the regular neckline most often in summer because I find the crew neck garments to be stiflingly hot. I’m sure Romney and others have similar reasons. The fact that the regular neck garments are more easily seen under a white dress shirt is of no concern whatsoever, unless you are self-consciously trying to hide the fact that you are wearing garments. I have no desire to hide that fact, and I suspect Romney doesn’t either.

I would be interested if anyone has ever investigated when and how the phrase “magic underwear” originated. I think it’s an internet meme. Back in the Carter Administration, when I was a missionary, I don’t think I encountered more than two or three people in two years who even mentioned garments. I don’t think it was something widely known, though obviously there would have been more who had heard of it, but didn’t say anything. I’m quite sure I never encountered the “magic” thing in any context until I saw it on the internet, perhaps in the late ’90s.

Did anyone watch the Rock Center special last week? I actually thought it was fairly balanced (though I didn’t like the interview with Abby Huntsman*). I was a bit irked to see the photo of a man and woman dressed only in garments used in the piece, though. While it’s one that has been floating around the internet for years and is easy to find, I thought it was unnecessary to include.

*I should add that I think Abby Huntsman is a glory seeker looking for her own 15 minutes of fame as an “authority” on the church. She’s made some suspect statements about Romney and a lot of partially true or colored comments about the church.

I’m only 21, and have gone to the endowment session less than a handful of times. Claiming to understand a lifelong commitment with little exposure is like saying I’m a prophet after being baptized. I don’t know enough to talk about it and usually refer them to the missionaries if the questions are serious.

#21 NH

I’m only 21, and have gone to the endowment session less than a handful of times. Claiming to understand a lifelong commitment with little exposure is like saying I’m a prophet after being baptized.

Age is a cop out. While you may have less experience with the endowment session and wearing garments, you can still develop a solid understanding of the purposes of the garment. At the very least, you should be able to tell someone why you personally chose to become endowed and why you wear the garments. Hopefully you have a testimony of their purpose even if you don’t fully understand it.

Every time I go to the temple to participate in any type of ordinance, I try to fully wrap my mind around the purposes of those ordinances and the garment. I have been endowed for a little over 10 years and have attended the temple quite a lot, and I still don’t feel like I have a _complete_ understanding of the ordinances or the garments. This doesn’t mean, however, that I can’t share what I _do_ know and understand.

Understanding the temple was a huge stumbling block for me as a young adult and one of the things that led to my inactivity. It took me a long time to learn that faith doesn’t require understanding. And you can have a very strong belief in something you don’t fully “get.”

I don’t know enough to talk about it and usually refer them to the missionaries if the questions are serious.

That doesn’t make any sense. Most missionaries are younger than you and have been to the temple only once or twice before starting their missions. They may be set apart as teachers, but they’re no more qualified than any other endowed member to discuss the temple or garments. In fact, by your reasoning, they’re probably _less_ qualified if you consider experience to be a necessary element in explaining such elements of our religion.

As I see it, the Lord doesn’t require any of us to be experts before asking us to teach others. Even young children can bear their testimonies of basic gospel principles. And newly-baptized members can teach and serve no differently than life-long members (there is no length-of-membership or age requirement for being called as a Bishop, Sunday school teacher, or a Prophet). As I see it, when/if others ask about elements of our religion that they don’t understand, we are all eligible to teach and testify of what we know.

I’ve always answered questions about garments with the ‘reminder of covenants’ line myself. But living in Southern Utah, mostly I find myself answering the “are you a member”question with a comment that I where the magic underwear. Love the look on their faces. But people in St. George and Hurricane need a good tease every now and then.

I tended to be quite self righteous at that age, I’d been to the temple and wore garments and I preached to the choir and anybody else. I offended quite a few non-Mormon relatives. Looking back, I can’t believe I said some of the things I did. So there are extremes which can be attributed to youth.

I was thinking of my daughhters this morning and realizing that, though I am not wise, I have sure learned a lot since I was in my twenties. Experience is a hard teacher.

I think, though, with my vast experience, that I don’t have top explain much to very many people. September’s Ensing has a lot on missionary work and has a talk in about the Mormon moment. I suppose now is the time to educate ourselves and be ready to talk about our religion, but I’m one who could live without this moment.

If anybody seriously brought up my garment wearing, I’d probably point out the clothing traditions of other religions and make a case for privacy and respect of my beliefs. Here in southern Utah, it’s pretty much a non-issue and like I said, I don’t think about it.

I’d tell people that garments are underwear we’re required to purchas from the church to prove our devotion and love for the Savior.

I think President Hinckley was preoccupied, and I sincerely hope he wasn’t asked. Worm food, and all that.

#30 NH – I don’t know about the mission zone where you live, but in the Boston mission and in the Seattle mission (when I lived in Washington), missionaries have to obtain special permission to attend the temple and do so very infrequently. Their focus should be preaching to and redeeming souls who are still on the earth, not on work for the dead. But maybe the missionaries in your area are different… Any former missionaries want to chime in here?

I didn’t take a temple-prep class either. In fact, I was asked to help teach one when I’d only been endowed a few months and had only attended 2 or 3 times. My point in my previous comment was that that age, time, and experience are not necessarily qualifiers for understanding–nor teaching–spiritual matters.

Your awareness of your ignorance means you’re making a choice to remain ignorant on this subject. And regardless of your reasons for receiving your endowments, you still chose to make those covenants which means you have certain promises to live up to. I’ve made this point in our discussions before.

When my husband wanted a divorce a few years back, one of his “reasons” (I would say “excuses”) was that he only asked me to marry him because I’d said I wanted to either get married or not be exclusive. In his mind (at the time), because he felt like the choice to marry wasn’t entirely his, it relieved him from the promises he made. That line of reasoning is faulty. When you make covenant with the Lord, regardless of your motivations, the outcome is the same: you are now part of a contract and are responsible for keeping up your side.

So, as I said, even if you don’t fully understand garments, you can do better than “they make me fly.” In my mind, that type of response makes the church look as silly and as unrelatable as some others claim it to be.

If somebody told me I wasn’t ignorant, I would thank them. Usually I’m being told all the myriads of different ways I am ignorant. Using big and descriptive and sometimes bad words.

NH, you have a point. Many young people go blithely to the temple without a clue what they’re taking on. I agree with Paroled that you can now, perhaps with some of the posts here, explain things better.

I think we’re all ignorant in one way or another, whether we’re Carl Sagan (who was CLEARLY ignorant of the fact that I was mad at him) or the prophet, a young woman struggling with life or an older woman, crap, still struggling with life.

I watched Rock Center yesterday—they showed the garments! That kind of offended me. I think it’s a little ignorant of the rest of the world not to realize we hold them sacred. Jews have sacred ways of dressing. You don’t see them mocked! Nobody would dare. I just think that’s rude, Brian.

We all have room to grow and learn.

#33 annegb – Just to clarify, NH called herself ignorant first. I didn’t assign her that label. But on the subject of ignorance, I’d have to say I’m _happily ignorant_ about a multitude of things in this world. I have no desire to understand international tax laws, calculus, biochemistry, and a number of other things. I don’t, however, believe in using ignorance as an excuse for not answering others honestly or for not taking responsibility for myself and my own actions (no accusations here, I’m just pontificating).

So often I hear, “Well I didn’t know how to [insert assignment here], so I can’t be held responsible” as an excuse from students, and it drives me batty! If you are alive and have a computer attached to the internet, there’s no excuse for not knowing how to outline a paper or use the proper form of “their.” Likewise, the Lord has given us everything we need to become knowledgable about the ordinances we have chosen to take upon ourselves. We just have to search it out.

If one has no interest in understanding something, that’s fine. Own it (I certainly try to). But don’t just throw up your hands and say, “I’m ignorant!” It’s all about the approach.

Just pointing out an explanation. Where else can you get temple garments? Nowhere but from the church. Put that way, they might not seem so strange to the outside world.

And President Monson’s the prophet now. Hinckley’s being asked to speak on that documentary is creepier than showing garments, IMO.

I totally agree. My daughter would, too, I know, because she’s said so concerning her first marriage.

Barbra, the church makes no profit on garments. They sell them very cheaply. I bet Catholic companies make priests’ vestments and Jewis companies make the clothing they wear. Same for all religions. Your criticism is unfounded.

And what criticism? Where have I criticized? Projection much?

NH and PPP:

I wasn’t really prepared for the temple in my temple prep class either. That was back in the 80′s. My escorts in the temple, a couple of members from my ward, dropped the ball in the temple, and one of the elderly and visually impaired temple workers, who was likely new to working in a temple, caused an embarrassing and stressful situation for me while my escorts had left me alone for “just a minute.”

(I had gone to the Atlanta temple shortly after it opened, so there were a lot of unexperienced, or less experienced temple workers there. I was even given a hard time by the clerks in the attached store where I bought my first garments. They were rather judgemental, and implied I shouldn’t have been there because I didn’t know if I was going to go on a mission. I was 25 at the time, though I probably looked 19 or 20 to them. “What are you doing here if you’re not going on a mission?” they demanded.)

Friends have told me of similar frustrations. Not that they would have changed their minds. But there are things you just need to be told are going to happen _before_ they happen.

There have been so many screw-ups for members, especially converts, in preparation (or lack thereof) for getting their endowments, that I think the church will put in place some sort of program or temple prep in the temple for members getting their own endowments, just to make sure that the basics get covered.

For instance, I was physically grabbed by that one temple worker, and shoved into the washing and anointing assembly line BEFORE my escorts told me what was going to happen. That was in the 80′s before changes were made. I understand it would be less confusing or embarassing these days.

Bishoprics and ward members just drop the ball too often on this important subject that means a lot to both young adults who grew up in the church, and to converts. At least those who grew up in the church can get some form of teaching or explaining or preparation from their parents in private.

But for converts going for the first time, that’s where the church, or most wards actually, drop the ball big time.

I’d bet that even many parents _assume_ that the bishop or RS pres is going to explain the washing/anointing/endowment to their adult son or daughter going for the first time. And many of those bishops probably assume the parent explained things. And what happens when everyone “assumes”, eh?

Good points, Book.

Nudist colonies? But thats more of a lifestyle right?

Paroled, your line about being ignorant is not an excuse but yet proclaim to choosing to be ignorant on biochemistry sounds hypocritical. What was that line…. “sin differently than you.”

Have you ever googled LSD garment meaning? If you’re lucky you’ll get a decent response. More likely than not you’ll be directed to ex-mo pages.

#48 – OOOOhhhhhh…..Halloween costume ideas are popping in my head….I wonder what religious vestment a middle-aged Mormon woman could buy. I could wear that to the Ward Halloween Party and really cause a stir.
I do buy and regularly wear Amish undershirts and black winter tights I get at the clothing store in a nearby Amish community. They wear like iron. I haven’t yet found a way to say “Check out my Amish tights” because no one cares what I put on my chubby legs.
I forget the point of this conversation…..oh well. This was my attempt at slowly coming back to life. I’ll try again later on another topic that doesn’t require much thought. I’m still feeling very ignorant lately.

And for the comprehension impaired [cough, Living in Zion, cough], the information about buying religious clothing was in response to annegb’s query as to whether other religions had religious garb available for purchase commercially (post 39).

It wasn’t fodder to mock the religious wear of others or to find new Halloween costumes. Anyone is free to do so of course; just makes them look like an ass.

#51 Barbra23 – I think Living in Zion was being sarcastic… We need some emoticons to help clarify tone in this forum!

#48 Barbara23

The garment must be purchased…(or procured)… from the church.

Just a small note of clarification: You can actually make your own garments if you’re so inclined. You just need the pattern, and the material has to be white. Why anyone would want to, I have no idea. Just saying…

Rees’ approach is great. Everything about the temple seems so symbolic. I remember Elder David B. Haight’s qoute of Elder John A. Widstoe about living in a “world of symbols” in an April 1992 conference talk. He then went on to explain how to learn “what the symbols can mean . . . and the eternal realities which they represent.” A wonderful talk about the temple symbolism.