Forgiveness.

Or my friend Dieter:

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/the-merciful-obtain-mercy

From a practical point of view, it’s easy to say this. It’s easy to say that we should forgive, but much harder to actually do it. It requires a lot of humility and prayer but ot really can happen. Your feelings of anger and animosity and wanting to lash out can be swallowed up in the atonement and you really can have peace. Doesn’t that sound a lot better than harboring anger and hostility and resentment the rest of your life?

Just try to imagine hearing everything from your daughter’s perspective. She will want her father to love her. She will not want her family speaking cruelly of her father, even if he has made mistakes. This kind of environment will be toxic for her.
So, try to get to the point where you can speak to him, speak of him in a calm, rational manner. Don’t lie about him ever….no need to make up some sort of great story, but keep the honesty as kind as possible. Explain that some people are good at some things and some people aren’t. If he continues to be selfish and mean, be able to speak about it calmly about how her father lets her down. Be hopeful but realistic.
What your main job here is to put the child first rather than indulging in your own selfish need to hate, vent or wish him ill. Forgiveness isn’t about giving someone a pass, it is about freeing yourself from the burden.

Forgiveness isn’t about giving someone a pass, it is about freeing yourself from the burden.

That is so right on.

Another way to say that is forgiveness is a present we give ourselves, so that the past actions of others don’t continue to hurt us.

MCQ- Thank you for the video. I found Chris’s story of forgiveness after his wife and children were killed by a drunk driver to be very moving. I agree with the parents of the driver and other people in the video who agreed that Chris’s ability to forgive instantly was unusual and something that he had been developing for a long time before their deaths. (I hesitate to call it an accident, because the young man involved chose to drink and drive, thus making their deaths a consequence, not a random accident.)
I wish I could be like Chris all the time. Sometimes I can forgive instantly. Heaven knows I am a woman married to a man for 25 years. I have developed the ability to let a lot go.
Unlike Chris, in dealing with Voldemort, forgiveness is not coming instantly and even Elder Dieter’s talk you suggested, to just Stop It, isn’t happening.

I am thinking that emotions involving my children and grandchildren is a different level of feeling for me.
For instance, I have told my husband that if I ever found out he was a serial killer/rapist/something horrible, I would dump his butt immediately and never visit him in prison. My love for him is based on both of us living up to our marriage covenants. I trust him to behave properly and if he became abusive or unfaithful,etc. the deal is off. Very conditional love based on both of us doing the right thing.
If my child did the same horrible acts, I would be completely devastated and confused, but I would visit them in prison and I would work at keeping my relationship with them. My children are from my decision to bring people into this world and my love for them is completely unconditional, freely given. I think a lot people have the same level of commitment to their parents and that is why children and adults cry and stay connected to their messed up, abusive parents no matter how badly the parents treat them. There is something different in the parent/child relationship.

So, I am thinking I am just being a protective mother guard dog, wanting to keep my daughter and granddaughter safe. If I think of it that way, my inability to instantly forgive Voldemort makes more sense and I feel better about it. I can accept the idea that Annegb gave, which is that it is going to take time. I love her mantra, “I can’t, God can, Let Him.” That is what I need to have in my head when intrusive, mean thoughts about Voldemort come. That I can remember and use to calm myself.
Gosh, this group helps me so much. Thank you for all your comments and please, keep them coming. I need all the perspectives I can get. This is really helping me get unstuck in my thinking.

Boundaries.

I am the daughter in this situation. Now that my parents are close by, it is inevitable that they are going to have to deal with him, but my mom at least is struggling.

What I found I have needed, and my ex was abusive (any promiscuity wouldn’t surprise me, but I don’t know he was for sure,) is boundaries. You need to sit down with yourself and God and work out what you are capable of right now. If all you can manage is a fake smile, then do that until you are ready to do more. Also, set the boundaries you are willing to let him cross in your own mind. Don’t be afraid or self-judgmental about where you set them; you can always change them later if you want to. But for now, figure out what you will do if he does THIS. Will you let him cross the threshold of your house or not? Will you invite him to family activities? If you talk to him, what are you willing to say.

Preparation is the best way to set good, enforceable boundaries.

Such boundaries will help you feel more comfortable, because you have exerted a level of control over the situation, and will help ease the knot of anger and frustration that makes it difficult to be polite in the face of injustice. With time, the boundaries may loosen. (I have found this book to be quite helpful.)

Also, find someone/somewhere you can vent. If there is no one who is safe (which is very likely in your case) then vent to a private journal. Blogger lets you start private blogs that no one can see but you. (I used my prolifically back when I was dealing with my emotions.)

But either way, in order to forgive, I have found it essential to take back control over myself and my part in the relationship, to create space for myself through appropriate boundaries. I do not let HIM and his actions dictate how I treat him. I’m done with that.

That was, after all, the point of the divorce.

SilverRain – Thank you. This is the detailed directions I need right now. And you are right, I am looking for a stop-gap, take back my power, not embarrass myself and most importantly – not make things worse kind of advice.
And I think your point about forgiveness is interesting and worth more thought. I like “forgiveness is not a behavior.” That feels right to me.

I’m glad my nasty little process can help someone else. Be patient with yourself. Setting boundaries is a process. If you’re like me, it takes trial and error to figure out what you can tolerate and exactly where those boundaries can be set. You’re bound to make mistakes. And don’t be surprised if it’s really tough. Setting boundaries is hard. It’s harder to tighten them than loosen them. But they get easier in time. Once the other person starts to learn that you won’t give on your boundaries, they stop testing them so often. I really recommend reading that book. It walks you through boundary methods, and helps you mentally prepare to actually set them.

Go, Silver Rain! It’s interesting how much power our exes can hold over us using the same behaviors that made us leave them in the first. BTW, I have tried repeatedly to go to your blog and it freezes every time.

You said:

“The son-in-law is a schmuck and I don’t trust him farther than I can throw him.
Ideally I wouldn’t ever speak to the ex-son-in-law( 2) ever again.
I so want to choke him or kick his -ss.
I want to have professional detachment, to think of him in a dispassionate way and never lose another wink of sleep over his behavior.”

In my opinion, you hold these strong emotions because you love your daughter and granddaughter so much. The only way to be “dispassionate” about him and his behavior is to become dispassionate about your daughter and granddaughter. In other words, OF COURSE you hate him violently. If you didn’t, it would mean that you don’t care about him harming your daughter and granddaughter. What you feel is the only rational/reasonable reaction possible.

I’m sorry that you and your daughter and granddaughter have to go through something like this. I’m also sorry for your ex-son-in-law for being in a place in life where the decisions he’s made seemed like an acceptable thing to do. Though it is easier to focus mainly on our own pain or the pain of those we love, I find the beginnings of forgiveness come when I can recognize that the person who hurt me must be hurting as well, or else they never would have done something so foolish. That is the beginnings of compassion, even for those who do not seem to deserve it. But of course, Christ didn’t make that distinction, did he. It didn’t matter whether or not they deserved it…instead he taught that the peace he promised us was conditional on our learning how to develop that compassion He exemplified all his life…including while on the cross, where instead of being filled with hate and disgust for those who were causing him, his friends, and his own mother a pain unimaginable, he uttered these words “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do”.

You asked what do you do to best help you, your daughter, and your granddaughter. I would argue one of the best things Christ did for those who loved him who looked on as he suffered was to offer forgiveness and compassion in such a vocal manner. Refusing to hold that bitterness himself perhaps helped those left behind to let go of the bitterness themselves. And only in letting go could they fully At-One with the God who had already done so.

I know that was true in my case. I too was married to someone who chose repeated infidelity. Fortunately no children were involved. I did choose forgiveness, and I chose it early on. That doesn’t mean there wasn’t incredible pain that followed…but the pain wasn’t from bitterness, it was from watching someone I loved self destruct. In retrospect, that forgiveness was one of the most important things I’ve ever done and decreased the amount of time I spent suffering. I chose not to speak negatively of her, and I chose not to let others speak negatively of her. I fully recognized what she did was wrong, I wasn’t pretending wrongs hadn’t been done, nor was I encouraging others to do the same. But I did not want to feel bitterness, and didn’t want to inspire bitterness in others. So we spoke with compassion to her and about her.

Equally as important was the example of my mother. She too was a voice of “forgive her, for she knows not what she does”. Instead of complaining or speaking evil of my ex, my mom would mourn with me that my ex was in a place in life where she was so confused as to do something so damaging to herself and to those around her. We mourned for her, but we didn’t demonize or demean.

Such actions were key to my healing, and the healing of my entire family, and an important level of healing in my ex. The reason that “charity never fails” is true is not because it changes a circumstance or the person who is the object of your charity…but because it never fails the POSSESSOR of it, because it will be the source of their connection and at-one-ment with God and the obtaining of mercy and peace and love that is necessary to their healing.

Being a Harry Potter fan among millions of fans, I don’t think anyone will begrudge me for hating Voldemort forever. : ) It actually helps that I know how the story ends. But being that Voldemort actually exists in your world, then yes, forgiveness is a good start, but it will be at your own pace, in your own way. Forgiveness is a process (repeatedly reminding yourself not to let your emotions/thoughts control you, etc.) more than an event (that moment you absolve yourself of grudges/ill-will toward the perpetrator). But more than that, your granddaughter needs to see the power of your example, whether you decide to engage her father or not at all, lest she picks up on your (and maybe even her mother’s) overtly negative vibes towards him. The forgiveness formula is usually proportionate to the length of suffering, the amount of pain inflicted, hatred, and desire. It’s important to remember you are not the victim here; the real victims being the daughter and granddaughter. At some point, they, too, will need to forgive him for breaking up the family and failing to keep his covenants.

On the other hand, your daughter could conceivably re-marry, and a good man she can rely and depend on will be a part of her life, thus making Voldemort a less conspicuous influence in your granddaughter’s life. But let’s say your daughter doesn’t remarry; she remains a single mother indefinitely, then she’ll absolutely need your emotional and spiritual support.

It’s possible, and probably very likely, being the bad husband/ father that he is, that you will not see him as much as you think you will. Establishing your boundaries and following them will absolutely enable you to maintain your self-respect. For instance, if you know he is going to be within eyesight, you can simply apparate, perhaps to Hogsmeade or Diagon Alley (but make sure you have a license from the Department of Magical Transportation), until he himself disapparates. After all, by virtue of his unvirtuous choices, realistically, you no longer have blood-ties to him, and thus no responsibility to maintain a relationship. In that regard, you can be absolutely dispassionate without feeling uncharitable, disrespectful, or guilty. It’s just a way to maintain your emotional control, without saying/doing something you may regret until you have reached that moment of absolution.

Yet another possibility, if we accept that people can change, the ex- will do a complete about face that will stun you beyond belief. Not bloody likely. However, even the Voldemorts of the world are not beyond redemption. Thankfully, we know the mortality story ends—that justice will ultimately prevail, that God will comfort those who mourn, and that He will be merciful to those who show mercy.

I love that you are so angry. He is a jerk. Never be surprised at anything a jerk does. I have found it is almost impossible to forgive as long as the offender is still harming me or my loved ones. So be angry at him until circumstances change and he harms you no longer. Keep your dignity when he is around and when your granddaughter is listening. Did you plead for GRACE, my brother, that you might forgive another?

Silver Rain, I absolutely respect every word you write. I can’t tell you on your blog because it is too difficult for me to comment there.

#25-dk-r regarding your comment,

“Also, the title of this post brings something else to mind. When I hear the word detachment, I don’t think of it in the “professional” sense, but in the Buddhist sense. Buddhism teaches that attachment is the route of all suffering. Attachment could be defined as the route of conditional love, because it is attached to certain behaviors, actions, circumstances etc. “I will only love you if you behave well”. “I will only be happy if…” “I will only forgive if…”

On the other hand, detachment is the ability to love in spite of circumstance, behavior, conditions. It is true unconditional love. It is not unlike God’s ability to maintain His wholeness, his joy and peace, his love, in spite of the oftentimes misguided and hurtful actions of his children. Learning how to love in such a manner should be the pursuit of all.”

I am reminded of a story I read years ago. It was talking about the amazing depths of detachment that Buddist Priest had achieved. They talked about how the priest could control their blood pressure, heart beat, pulse rate and even bodily functions normally thought of as autonomic. Then they explained how the Buddist realized they had gone too far in perfecting detachment when there were political demonstrations in the streets and people had poured gasoline on themselves and set themselves on fire, and the Buddist priests had absolutely no reaction to the horror in front of them.
I love the concept of of detachment. I just want it to be in the “right” way.

Someone wrote hate is not the opposite of love, only a distortion of it. Rather, it is apathy which is the true polarity of love.
That has been my life experience. I have been able to experience apathy (truly not caring at. all.) in regard to the adults who abused me and my brother in childhood. That has been a wonderful gift of healing for me. I have been in a room with them and was able to be civil and calm when previously I would have begun involuntarily shaking from subconcious fright. I can also say that if I saw them burning to death, it would barely register on my meter.
I’m not sure that is healthy, either. It has kept me out of the psyc. hospital, so I’ll take it, but I am sure there is further work to be done there.Of course, we are talking about extremes of behavior. But doesn’t learning concepts begin in considering extremes?

With my Voldemort, I have to do better. There must be a dispassionate response, without tipping over all the way to complete apathy.
And also, in the concept of detachment is my concern that sometimes people end up stuck in screwed up relationships, co-dependent kinds of nonsense, with the idea that unconditional love says that it doesn’t matter how someone treats me, I will stay attached because that is what Christ would want me to do. I don’t believe that for a second, which is why in comment #12 I explained how my perspective on love is different between my husband vs my children. I could be right, I could be wrong. If there is another way to consider my human relationships, please tell me. I am open to learning another way if there is a better way.

Regarding #12 – I guess my point is that you can have unconditional love for someone while also making the correct decision to dump them and let them go to prison. Again…isn’t that what God does? He tells you “I love you no matter what…but for you to feel my presence in this life, and to live with me in the next, I need you to “learn of me, take my yoke upon you”. For example, let’s assume you have made mistakes regarding how you are handling Voldemort, and let’s take it one step further and say that as a result of those mistakes it is more difficult for God to give you the peace that you desire and that He desires to give you. I have a feeling that instead of God being really upset with you and your actions, his first thoughts are compassion for you…he probably immediately imagines how difficult this must be for you, especially in light of any childhood abuse that you suffered. Any incorrect actions you make are not opportunities for him to gloat over you with his Perfection and your inferiority, but are instead moments where he views you in complete understanding of why you find it difficult to choose something else, and he most likely pleads with the Father “Forgive her, she doesn’t realize that what she’s doing is causing her more pain”. He understands exactly the history of your life that makes it easier or more difficult to make decisions that result in healing, and his bowels are filled with compassion for you when it is more difficult. He waits encouragingly for you to learn a different way, to cast aside the pains and lay them at His feet.

Developing compassion for my ex-wife who had caused me such pain gave me some of the greatest insights I’ve had yet into the love of God (I haven’t yet had children and imagine more wonderful insights await). If I in my weakness and imperfection can feel love for someone who has offended me so greatly, if I can have mercy and kindness…than how great must be the love, mercy, and kindness of God. As I sought to develop those virtues in that difficult circumstance…I found that the virtues themselves became the source of my connection with God and consequently the peace that I felt, and that my peace was in no way conditioned upon the circumstances of my life.

Finally, it is worth adding that I don’t like at all the phrase “everything happens for a reason”. I opt instead for “There can be meaning in all things”. Whether or not there is meaning is up to us. This divorce can either be the catalyst for a life of pain and suffering (if bitterness remains and feelings of fear for the future, doubt regarding one’s self, and anger towards others or God or the circumstances of life become the hallmark of your response or your daughter’s response to this terrible situation). Or it can be the catalyst to the greatest connection to God you’ve ever felt (a connection which is strengthened to the degree we let go of those natural man tendencies I listed above and pursue of life of faith in God and in ourselves to overcome hard things, hope for a brighter future, and love for all mankind, including those who hurt you).

There may not be a very good reason for what has happened to your daughter, but there can still me meaning in it. It can drive her to learn things at a younger age that will make her a better mother, a better daughter, and a better friend. It can drive her to develop self worth outside of the silly actions of a misguided man, self worth that is based not on one’s opinion of themselves, but of God’s opinion of them and his view of their inherent worth.

A friend in AA told a true story once about a Canadian monk whose abbott was an asshole. He was kicked out of the abbey in the middle of a snowstorm. When he found shelter, he knelt to pray and said, “God. Kill that sonofabitch! And do it slowly. And let me watch! Make him suffer as he deserves to suffer.”

As time went by, his prayers modified; “Kill him and make him suffer. But I don’t have to watch.” “Kill him fast, he doesn’t have to suffer.” “Well, don’t kill him, just smack him around a little.”

Until finally, his prayer was “God, forgive us both.”

You’re right, time is needed. And I agree with Tiger, I sadly think that as time passes, he will not be an involved father at all. Which is also going to be hard for Eleanor.

I liked what Angie said.

dk- thank you! I really like how you explained detachment. It makes sense and I feel a lot better. I already have Man’s search for Meaning on my shelf -must read it again, thanks for the reminder. And I ordered A Light in the Wilderness. (Yay for Amazon Books!)
Your words have been a God Send today. Thank you for taking the time and energy to break it down for me. Also, I admire how you have handled your situation with your ex-wife. That is exactly how I want to be.

Part of me want to think that if he’s that much of a schmuck (and I have no reason to doubt)then you probably won’t be surprised if he and the young, naive girlfriend will marry and he’ll put more and more distance between himself and the daughter. He may not even realize he’s doing it. At least, for your sake, I can hope. Then you and your daughter can fill in as much of the void as you can.

Why would you pray for anyone to get run over?

#39 – Ardis – Well said. Very well said. Thank you for your insight. I do hate being unable to take charge and formally kick Voldemort to the curb.
I hate feeling powerless to stop evil. Thanks for another level of clarity. I am so grateful for this thread. I can tell it has saved me about 50 hours of professional therapy already.

#43 – twiceuponatime – I appreciate your comment. I like getting another side to the story. I’m sorry you had unrealistic expectations thrust upon you in your first marriage. I admit I did that to my husband as a newlywed, too. I kinda became a shrew, if you want the truth. My poor husband could do nothing right and I always had a list of more of things for him to do. It took some hard looking in the mirror to realize what I was doing and stop it. Now that I think about, I should probably repent today of doing the same thing. I have been giving my husband hard time lately for not helping around the house enough. I will have to apologize for that.

As for my Voldemort, yes I have been guilty of expecting him to put down his stupid video games after 7 hours of playing, not be a slob, pick up his own mess and wanting him to quit complaining to everyone who would listen about his wife, my daughter. What I am not guilty of:
Excusing his abusive, threatening behavior towards my daughter. Excusing his infidelity. Excusing his lying. Excusing his total control of all finances.

My Voldemort was raised by wolves, so we all knew going into my daughter’s marriage that this was going to be a work in progress. I had compassion for him because, I too was raised in a less than ideal situation and I know how difficult it is do better. That is our difference. I was broken and was willing to work to improve. My Voldemort is broken and refuses to do the work to heal. His destructive choices are what led to my daughter deciding she and her child could no longer live with him. And it broke her heart.
Now the work begins to help her heal from this experience and to take back her personal power to improve her life. It sounds like you have done the same with your life. I am happy you are remarried and continue to have a relationship with your children. I do believe when children grow up they figure out the truth of both their parents.

I can at least say there was no infidelity in my first marriage. Your last comment makes me understand your bitterness more – you at least have some real reasons to be bitter, then. Thanks for the explanation, though.

I just get a little defensive at times when I hear ex-husbands bashed, because my ex in laws have succeeded in defaming my name as far and as wide as they can. You, at least, refuse to name him, which is to your credit (I refuse to name my ex wife and her family, the main reason I use a internet pseudonym when divorce discussions come up).