I see nothing there that shows that Obama’s actually going after our guns.

I support your right to walk out of a doctor’s office if he asks you about guns. But I also support, like Obama, a doctor’s right to ask you about guns in your home. I know/knew children involved in a deadly shooting because some dunce kept a loaded pistol out in the open. Your doctor should be able to ask parents if they keep guns locked up and in a safe place, just as much as that doctor has a right to ask parents if they allow their children to play with rattlesnakes.

Obama’s plan is surprisingly tame. After having read far too much of the rabid posts from a vocal minority of the gun owning public his proposals and executive orders fall short of the fears expressed by them. As far as the executive orders go, I think many of them are uncontroversial and good policies. Unless you are against the orders based on concerns for government spending.

I think a good case could be made that New York’s new law is “going after our guns”, though.

I don’t know about mass murders 100 years ago, but murders by gun certainly did happen back then. I haven’t looked at the numbers from thaht far back, but more recently the number of gun murders has gone down. Mass murder by gun, as terrible as it is, and even as frequent as it has seemed to become, is still a small fraction of the total murders by gun.

Pls remember that Hitler was in third place as far as mass murdering dictators. Mao was number 1 and Stalin was number 2.

My husband owns a firearms related business. He holds a Federal Firearms Manufacturing License. He handloads ammo and our son does gunsmithing for the business. They are associated with the largest gunshop in town. Everyone in the family shoots, we all have Concealed Weapons Permits and my husband and I qualified as experts with the M-16 (AR-15) in Army Basic Training.

Just some random thoughts:

Those in the gun business have known that if Obama was re-elected for a second term, he would start his gun control agenda, doing it in his first term would hurt his chance of re-election. Sandy Hook just pushed their timeline forward a little. The day after the election, the firearms suppliers were sold out and are still in very short supply. This pre-dates the Sandy Hook shooting by over a month.

Ammo loading components are in short supply. This includes powder, casings, bullets and primers. My husband is selling out of ammo as soon as he makes it.

According to FBI statistics, in 2011 there were less than 9,000 firearms related murders in the US. Let’s be generous and round this up to 10,000. There are 310 MILLION firearms in the US. For the sake of argument, let’s say each one was committed with a different weapon. What kind of miniscule percentage is that?

Yesterday, 58 million gun owners didn’t shoot ANY ONE.

During WWII, why didn’t the Japanese invade the US? It wasn’t because of that nice, wide Pacific Ocean. Admiral Yamamoto, who planned the Pearl Harbor attack, stated that if Japan invaded the US, “there will be an American with a gun behind every blade of grass”. Don’t kid yourself that it can’t happen again.

In his life, my husband has used a firearm 4 times to stop a crime, without firing a shot, and this was in SAFE areas. Most recent incident was in December. Our older son has done it twice and our lovely daughter-in-law once, some one kicked in the door of their house, again in a “safe” area. I’ve been lucky.

The worst attack on a US school occurred on 18 May, 1927, in Bath, Michigan. Disgruntled school board member Andrew Kehoe, upset over the foreclosure of his farm, partly due to the added taxes for the new school, DYNAMITED the new school, killing 45 people, mostly children.

FBI statistic: most commonly used weapon in violent crimes is a baseball bat.

Support and exercise your Second Amendment rights.

Thanks, Margaret, lots of food for thought. I honestly didn’t pay much attention to this until I watched the president’s speech and he left out the things I mentioned. Something about it….

You know what’s funny, Ron, I’ve never been asked that. Two suicide attempts (got it all out of my system, spiritually grew and regret, let us not speak of it) and my doctor never asked that. I guess it would be context, too, because women don’t usually shoot themselves. However, they might want to ask for the times I’ve been so mad at Bill it’s lucky I didn’t have a gun.

And of course, southern Utah, what doctor is going to ask such a politically incorrect question here?

Totally off my own subject, but I had Bill show me how to load and ch-ching the shotgun recently. He said it holds three bullets but I’d probably only get one shot because it would knock me out. I just want to do that ch-ching thing and scare off an intruder without pulling the trigger. Then, again, our guns haven’t been fired in many many years. Could just blow up on me and the point of the ch-ching would be lost.

Although I guess that makes me nervous, too, because I worry about my grandson being targeted as dangerous when he’s not. Dang a slippery slope in these, the latter days, when the love of men (and teenage boys) has waxed cold.

Rob T: Many of his suggestions make sense, however, many of them already exist in one form or another. No, the proposed items probably would not affect our livelihood, but it places us at the top of the slippery slope of more and more ineffective restriction and possible total confiscation. The “Assault Weapons” ban that they like to tout is one of these ineffective ideas. Both the Department of Justice and the CDC have put out reports stating that the ten year ban, and then the lifting of the ban in 2004, had no effect on the number of firearm deaths. Putting together a data base of legally obtained weapons in no way prevents crime, it is only useful for harrassment and confiscation. Banning high capacity magazines? Do you know how quickly I can change out those 10 round mags to have the same firepower? Additionally, those in the past who decided what was an assault weapon and what wasn’t had no idea what they were talking about. One weapon was an “assault weapon” because it had a composite stock and/or pistol grip, while the exact same thing with a wooden stock wasn’t. BTW, I’ve never found a piatol grip to be an advantage over a regular grip.

What we need to prevent firearms violence is rigorous prosecution of all firearms criminals, very, very responsible firearms ownership (knowing how to use them, store them very securely and TEACH YOUR CHILDREN, young children get into trouble with guns out of curiosity, remove the curiosity and you eliminate a lot of accidents, make it plain to ALL children what really happens when someone is shot, it’s not a fantasy ), and improved mental health care. I would like to see a report of the number of crimes committed with a firearm where the weapon was obtained without a background check, haven’t heard of one. How many are committed with a stolen one?

Basically, what it comes down to is that the Second Amendment is about defense of self, nation and from a tyranical government, it is NOT about hunting, as OBAMA keeps bringing up.

“A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” Our Founding Fathers made it clear that they considered a “militia” to be the armed private citizens of this country.

As something I saw on Facebook the other day said “I need a semi-automatic weapon with a 30 round mag because my government has FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons with 30 round mags”. Don’t kid yourself that it can’t happen here.

What do we need to protect our schools? School Resource Officers and armed staff. Why do you think Israeli school children, who are probably the most desirable target in the world, are safe?

Margaret: Thanks for your comments and the link. I absolutely agree that we need to work on culture and the heavy responsibilities that come with gun ownership: that’s what I was taught growing up & in Scouts. And it’s been frustrating watching loud-mouths in recent weeks passing around memes like the one of the family in Texas with all of the kids holding rifles & pistols in front of the Christmas tree (some of the kids’ guns were pointing at their brothers and sisters.) The 2nd Amendment isn’t an excuse to glamorize guns, use them as a status symbol, or not use proper safety, especially in homes with children and young adults.

And I agree that the assault weapon ban was so full of loopholes and exemptions that it didn’t have that much of an impact: it was what could pass Congress at the time. As for background checks, I know that the weapons at Columbine were purchased at a gun show (no background check required). I’m sure there have been many, many others. It’s also harder to steal/borrow guns for crimes when their kept in a locked safe or being actively carried. Even if we don’t implement a new assault weapons ban, a full background check would be helpful and a way to support responsible ownership.

I don’t kid myself into think that government cannot become tyrannical, the people with power won’t abuse it (including gun owners who are less responsible than you are–we’ve had some recent tragedies here in Florida), but despite the contempt for the President you appear to feel, this isn’t a big power grab/disarming of the citizenry, and just because he’s proposed restrictions on the kinds of guns & ammo available for purchase doesn’t mean he isn’t also talking about school resource officers, mental health, or the impact of culture (video games and other media) on gun violence, or that we can’t work on or debate all of these things. The CDC, until very recently, was prohibited from conducting research into why people commit crimes with guns. That kind of prohibition (put in place by politicians terrified of the NRA) is dumb and it’s now changed.

And, Rob, how do you feel about him avoiding condemning the video games and violence in movies? That sounds like he has a pretty narrow agenda.

For one of the best explanations of the futility of an “assault” weapons ban, go to WSJ.COM and go to John Lott: The Facts About Assault Weapons and Crime. As for the Columbine perpetrators, the weapons were bought by an adult friend at the Great Western Gun Show in Pomona (we used to have tables there) and then illegally passed on to the boys.

Sorry, it appears that you trust the President and government alot more than I do. It’s happened in other countries, it can happen here. Remember, I said it put us at the top of a slippery slope, it could take a couple of generations. All the countries that have had their weapons confiscated in the past never thought THAT would happen, either. Remember, Hitler and every other tyrant has disarmed the citizenry when they took over.

BTW, I can’t find that news article again, but onlt 2.6% of murders are committed with rifles. The “assault” weapons ban is to mollify those who are only thinking emotionally, and don’t know or are ignoring the facts. Those wishing to control the population will use whatever emotional lever they can.

weapons and Crime

Anne: Aw, thanks! I’ve been working on my reasonable-in-online-discussion skills. And I’m pleased to make your acquaintance. And, yes, full disclosure: I ran Mormons for Obama during the past election & I’m currently a member of LDS Dems (though I was registered as a Republican through early 2008).

Highlighting violence in video games & movies is a difficult thing as 1) it brings in 1st amendment issues, and 2) we’re not totally sure what the impact is of people playing violent video games. (Does it allow an outlet for people who would otherwise be violent in real life? Does it glamorize gun violence and make people more likely to use guns? Does it have more of an impact on kids? Or young adults? On people who are good at the games? Or bad at them and thus even more frustrated?) Orson Scott Card featured a pretty good guest column that goes over some the variables involved and why things like rock-n-roll haven’t come up in the discussion. I’ve linked it the same way as the Giffords address. I do think there are ways we glamorize gun violence that are bad, but I’m not sure how much the government can actually do about it, especially a President who is already viewed with suspicion when it comes to guns & 2nd amendment rights, and that might be why he’s been shy about bringing it up. (In general, people who are left of center who work in government, after Al & Tipper Gore, tend to worry about coming across as shrill and in favor of a nanny state when they suggest ways American culture could improve.) Regardless, the way I see it, now that the CDC is actually allowed to research the origins of gun violence, we might be able to find out more about the impact (if any) of video games & movies.

My two cents: I agree with Margaret that there are things that gun owners, marksmanship instructors, and other folks who aren’t part of the government can do to emphasize the awesome responsibilities that come with the right of gun ownership (including keeping guns locked away, unloaded, when not in use). And that a lot of the gun deaths in this country are linked to feelings of anger/rage/unrighteous dominion that feed into domestic violence & assault and making sure that everyone who wants to buy a gun has to pass a background check to make sure they, say, don’t have an active restraining order out against them or previous conviction for a violent crime within the last 10 years, would probably do something to bring down our nation’s much-too-high homicide rate.

Why don’t you print their names and we’ll have all the illegal immigrants go to those countries.

He quoted this from Rich Lowry of the National Review:

“Unfortunately, no one can write a law against mothers’ owning guns that one day might be turned against them by deranged sons who then commit horrific acts of murder-suicide. Shooting rampages are very hard to prevent because they are so often committed by disturbed young men without criminal records who don’t care if they are caught and usually want to die.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/338026/infantile-spectacle-rich-lowry

He makes a lot of sense.

It seems to me that the vast majority of the use of weapons to prevent crimes don’t involve actually firing the weapon. So, here is my proposal:

Gun manufacturers or other enterprising individuals should start creating realistic-looking fake guns. Because they’re not real, they can be bought for just a few dollars. Because they look like real guns, they can deter criminals–for the most part just as much as a real gun. And because they’re not real, no little kid is going to blow his friends head off by accident, no teenager is going to blow his head off in a fit of depression, no criminal is going to be able to go on a shooting spree with the stolen gun, and no safety-impaired individual is going to be able to blow a hole in his leg with it.

Win win win.

Well, unless you’re not actually getting a gun to make you and your family safer. Then, I guess, it’s not a win.

Never mind. Knowing gun owners, it probably isn’t such a great money-making idea after all.

“I need a semi-automatic weapon with a 30 round mag because my government has FULLY AUTOMATIC weapons with 30 round mags”

Margaret, I fear civilians with these guns much more than I fear the military. I don’t share the belief that our government would enslave us but for these weapons being available to us. But more importantly, the military has weapons that would make a semi-automatic weapon as effective as a derringer. Actually, they have fully automatic weapons. Do we need those too?

Do we civilians also need tanks, mortars, daisy cutters, howitzers, nuclear shells, etc, because the military has them? Is this an arms race between us and the military? If so, it’s not a race we can win. And in the meantime, while we wait for this expected attack on civilians by the military, civilians are being attacked by civilians with semi-automatic weapons.

If members of the NRA weren’t afraid the president was trying to take guns in order to take over America with HIS guns, this would be a no-brainer.

Democrats were afraid of Bush—my Democrat friends told me so. We all hunker down in fear of each other.

Fear is a great motivator and it’s being used by both sides of this argument.

I am (of course) a Mormon, and member of the LDS church. I have been counselled repeatedly over the course of my life to prepare a year supply of food for myself and my family. (My sense is the year number hasn’t been emphasized as much, lately, though I haven’t really looked into it.)

I don’t actually believe a full year’s supply makes sense. If we look at the recent disasters faced in various places in the world, both natural and hybrid natural-manmade, I don’t think there was one where there was not assistance provided or food available within two weeks of the disaster. Certainly the effects of the disaster last much longer, but within two weeks there is food in the stores or the cavalry has arrived. In today’s global state, even a multi-year famine, would not pose too much problem for us here in the first world, considering how much food is transported worldwide already.

Considering that a year supply of food and water take up space, require time and money to set up and maintain, and tie up assets into a thing that is just sitting there doing nothing, it actually seems counter productive to maintain the supply. Wouldn’t it make more sense to maintain a two week supply of food and water, and save a year’s worth of money to purchase food and water in the event of an emergency?

I’m left wondering whether the counsel to set up a supply of food and water for an entire year is an anachronism for our time, whether it is important at all, perhaps just institutional/institutionalized paranoia, or whether it is still important counsel to follow.

If I decide that it is, in fact, important to strive to maintain an entire year’s worth of food and water, then I wonder what kind of situation I could expect it to be necessary in, where a gun wouldn’t also be either necessary or in threat of being necessary.

As I see it, that year supply is not for just me, for an entire year. It could feed me and 25 neighbors during that 2 week emergency until the cavalry arrives. And I’m sure that less than 1 in 25 people in my neighborhood has a 2 week supply. You people in Utah could ship some of that personal storage to non-mormons in SLC or even outside of Utah if needed in a dire emergency.

Even if you have only a 3 month, or 12 week supply, you could feed yourself and 5 other people for those 2 weeks. Even if its a winter storm that only closes businesses and stores for 4 days, and you only have a 2 week supply, you’d be a savior to that one neighbor who has no more than 2 days worth of staples on hand, or the storm hits right before they do their weekly shopping.

And don’t discount a famine that affects a large segment of population. Terrorists might set off a few dirty bombs in America’s breadbasket, and we could lose a significant percentage of the world’s corn, wheat and soybean crop, and those acres would be dead for decades or centuries.

The world’s supply of grain -storage- has been shrinking in recent years. If any major crop producer in the world has a major crop failure, all over the world poor people at the fringes who live on the edge who barely eke by will starve when food is priced beyond their meager means.

For example, In the past 5 years, there have been rice shortages around the world.

The US mandatory diversion of 40% of our corn crop to methanol, has raised the price of corn tortillas in Mexico. It has a cascade effect.

Having millions of people (like mormons, or any preppers) SLOWLY build up a 1 year supply, not panic buying, would then provide a buffer, like a capacitor in an electric circuit, to smooth out fluctuations in price and supply. Buy and build up supply when there is a good crop, and eat/rotate your storage when the annual crop is below average.

Moreover, if you ROTATE and use your supply, you come out ahead because the cost of food has been rising faster than the interest rate you can get at the bank for CD’s or savings accounts. I buy food at today’s prices, but I’m eating some year old food out of storage that I bought for 10% less. Having that money in the bank in a CD or money mkt acct or savings would not have earned me anywhere near 10%.

Plus, I not only come out ahead because the value of my stored food goes up faster than interest rates, I also come out ahead because I can now shop the sales, and not have to buy at whatever the current retail price is.