Other recommended reading on this topic: Dalton Discouragement | Dear President Dalton | A Response to President Dalton

Thanks for this. That sentence really bothers me. Especially since it doesn’t help anyone.

It makes those who see a need for change feel like they’re under attack. Almost all of them will react like most of us do when attacked–they’ll become more defensive. Some who were on the fence on some of these issues will feel the unfairness of the attack and act (and change their opinions) accordingly.

Many of those who aren’t lobbying for rights will feel a smug satisfaction about how righteous they are, and will thus become more prideful.

Again, a real lose/lose statement.

I hope Sister Dalton gets asked to say a prayer in the next General Conference. I imagine that could be a bit awkward…

So yes, there is pain and judgment for women, and not all of it from the church.

Naturally — nobody ever said things were perfect in the rest of the world, far from it. The problem I have with Pres. Dalton’s talk is that church is the last place I want my daughter learning that these things are okay… that “this is the way God wanted things so I should know my place and keep quiet.”

Is it possible that given the circumstances of the talk (a BYU devo), that most people would (ans ahould) just ignore Dalton?

I think a devotional at BYU where the student body is international is quite different from a stake conference. I knew students from well over a dozen different countries during my time there, and that was entirely without being involved in any kind of international club or organization.

My wife went to Ricks and the vast majority of her roommates there were from foreign countries (a pattern that strangely continued, although to a lesser degree, once she got to BYU).

Definitely not like a stake conference.

But even in General Conference we often hear references to purely American things–football (usually not even referred to as “American football”) scouting, etc. We (including many of our leaders) are clearly having a hard time getting used to the fact that we are an international church.

I’m bothered by the constant theme of battle, race, etc. in our church. Work. We are encouraged to work hard enough to save ourselves and the focus on competing and comparison misses the point, I believe.

I can’t say it right, I know, but that bothers me. I wish we could be more zen in our gospel experience.

Her comment about lobbying seems pointed and I can see your concern.

The Stepford quality of our speakers bugs me. I don’t think God would talk to us like that if He were a speaker at BYU. I don’t think He would be saying “do this, win this, you’re a leg up on the rest of the world who aren’t Mormons.” I think He would be saying “I love all of you so much.”

I don’t know, Book. We have “normal” speakers in my ward more than the sing-song deal. I think a lot of what’s off in our church comes from the fear of being oneself. When we get a leader who’s not afraid, people flock to them. You know, though, in other churches, the speakers are trained and usually have some kind of inborn talent calling them to the ministry.

I guess we all do the best we can.

I “woulda felt better” if Sister Dalton had said something like “sometimes policies or leaders can make members feel excluded, ignored or unimportant. We hear the heartache behind what sometimes appears to be frivolous or attention-seeking calls for change in policy. Policy is not the same thing as doctrine and there is no need for an adversarial approach to policy change. We are constantly and prayerfully considering what the Lord would have us do to help bring souls to Christ, even in small organizational steps. We love all of you and wish to exclude no one. Let us work together.”

Has it occurred to any one that what President Dalton was trying to say is that the rights already exist, we just need to take advantage of them? I am a 52 year old life long member. I have attended the LDS Church in 3 countries, 8 Stakes, 8 Wards and 3 Branches, from Southern California to Germany. I have never, EVER felt there were any rights I didn’t have. I have never seen women discrimated against in any of these church units, they have always been fully involved in all aspects of the church except for actual Priesthood Meetings. I wasn’t discouraged from joining the Army at 17, I wasn’t discouraged from going to work when I had children at home, I wasn’t told I should have more children than I thought prudent, I have never been told to unquestioningly obey my husband or church leaders at any level, have have never felt it implied to “shut up and know my place”. I was always encouraged to BE ALL YOU CAN BE. I have always tried to follow the examples of our sisters in the earlier years of the church and my 33 year old daughter in Utah feels the same. It would be nice, however, for a woman to give a prayer at General Conference.