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	<title>Comments for Mormon Mentality</title>
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	<description>Thoughts and Asides by Peculiar People</description>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by living in zion</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167537</link>
		<dc:creator>living in zion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 01:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167537</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[#6 DK- 
Thanks so much for your response. It was a post in and of itself and I loved it. I found the online free booklet of The Practice of The Presence of God. I printed it out and tucked it into my church bag. I am looking forward to reading it next Sunday. That is the only time in my life right now that I can read anything uninterrupted. It will be very sweet, I&#039;m sure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#6 DK-<br />
Thanks so much for your response. It was a post in and of itself and I loved it. I found the online free booklet of The Practice of The Presence of God. I printed it out and tucked it into my church bag. I am looking forward to reading it next Sunday. That is the only time in my life right now that I can read anything uninterrupted. It will be very sweet, I&#8217;m sure.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by annegb</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167535</link>
		<dc:creator>annegb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 May 2013 01:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have that booklet!  I carry it in my purse for sacrament time.

Good post, LIZ, I am of the opinion that we are too task oriented in our church and that often, a person will pat themselves on the back for accomplishments and think themselves celestial kingdom worthier than others because they do more.  

Real food for thought.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have that booklet!  I carry it in my purse for sacrament time.</p>
<p>Good post, LIZ, I am of the opinion that we are too task oriented in our church and that often, a person will pat themselves on the back for accomplishments and think themselves celestial kingdom worthier than others because they do more.  </p>
<p>Real food for thought.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by dk</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167532</link>
		<dc:creator>dk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 23:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I can certainly see value in both.  Some things just need to be done...period.  There is some virtue in doing something simply because it needs being done no matter how we feel about it.  

But, I have also strongly felt spiritual power come from paying attention to my motives, and using moments where my motives and intent are not quite what I&#039;d want them to be as opportunities to see that perhaps there is room for me to be a little more deliberate in my intention.

First some scripture - Moroni 7 is powerful to me.  Because it seems to distinguish between deeds and motives.  It suggests that there are things that can be done in life which most might consider &quot;good&quot; (like giving a gift or praying), which if not done with real intent &quot;profiteth them nothing&quot;.  It seems that God is very concerned with our intent.  Frequently returning to the verses 4-19 over the last few years pondering this very question for a few years has led me to believe that intent and motive is very important for the individual, but may not be for the collective.  

One could go to church for years like my father without his intent truly being there, and in so doing he was of service to and blessed many people...but his own soul felt quite unenlightened and distant from God.  He wasn&#039;t even sure if God existed, and was just kind of hoping that if he kept it up that maybe God would have mercy on him.  If you really think about it, his intent during the first 50 years of his life was often fear...though he wouldn&#039;t have called it that at the time.  Later in life, he learned to be more aware of intent, and started trying to do the same things he&#039;d always done with much more deliberate and worshipful intent.  He finally found the God he thought was missing, he found infinitely more joy in the same acts of service, his testimony blossomed.  

Returning to the words of Moroni - my father gave service (gifts) and prayers and offerings with fear as his intent...which perhaps is similar to the imagery of a bitter fountain which cannot bring forth good water (or the relationship with God he long desired).  That didn&#039;t mean that others were incapable of receiving his gifts with good intent.  There were many who received his acts of service with gratitude and thanksgiving...and that allowed them to be blessed individually for it, even if my dad felt little reward personally.  

My opinion...it would seem that the good and bad described by Moroni refers less to &quot;things&quot; we would traditionally define as being good (scripture reading, prayer, offerings, service)...and more to do with intent...or put another way - attitude/virtue.  Doing things with a true spirit of gratitude/charity/love etc. makes average and mundane things truly &quot;good&quot;...or good for the soul.  For filled with those virtues, which are carefully and deliberately cultivated, all tasks can bring them unto God.  I would argue, as it seems Moroni argues, that the good thing isn&#039;t the prayer or gift itself, but the spirit in which it is offered.  Perhaps Nephi was teaching the same things as well in the last vs of 2 Ne 32 where he asks us to not perform anything unto the Lord save we first pray, that He may consecrate our performance, that it can be to the welfare of our souls.  Maybe this prayer we offer is to ask God to help us focus on embodying the best intent...so that whatever it is we are doing can actually build us and those around us.

There is a 17th century monk named Brother Lawrence whose writings are collected in a very short book you can obtain in PDF form called &quot;Practicing the Presence of God&quot;.  In it, he declares that God is &quot;Lord of the pots and the pans&quot; as much as he is of the sacraments and ordinances.  His job in the monastery was to work in the kitchen, and he learned how to find joy in even the most mundane tasks by doing what he called &quot;practicing the presence of God&quot;.  He firmly believed and taught that all of our most mundane tasks can be full of His divine presence, and that this is a skill and gift to be sought after and developed.  

Practically speaking, as you have this unique family circumstance before you, and you find yourself in a moment where you are simply doing something...see if you can&#039;t find a way to consecrate that something by finding a motive rooted in virtue.  Perhaps envisioning for even a moment the love that you have for your daughter and grand daughter can be enough to fill the mundane with purpose and meaning.  Perhaps remembering the blessing that you are offering this little child by providing extra security that will bless her for a lifetime will give you added patience in a moment that seems to be calling for impatience. 

Whatever it is that you find challenging (from a perspective of intent)...see if you discover a deeper motivation that can transform the daily grind into the divine pursuit of God.  For he truly is Lord of pots and pans too.  

Blessings to you and your family.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can certainly see value in both.  Some things just need to be done&#8230;period.  There is some virtue in doing something simply because it needs being done no matter how we feel about it.  </p>
<p>But, I have also strongly felt spiritual power come from paying attention to my motives, and using moments where my motives and intent are not quite what I&#8217;d want them to be as opportunities to see that perhaps there is room for me to be a little more deliberate in my intention.</p>
<p>First some scripture &#8211; Moroni 7 is powerful to me.  Because it seems to distinguish between deeds and motives.  It suggests that there are things that can be done in life which most might consider &#8220;good&#8221; (like giving a gift or praying), which if not done with real intent &#8220;profiteth them nothing&#8221;.  It seems that God is very concerned with our intent.  Frequently returning to the verses 4-19 over the last few years pondering this very question for a few years has led me to believe that intent and motive is very important for the individual, but may not be for the collective.  </p>
<p>One could go to church for years like my father without his intent truly being there, and in so doing he was of service to and blessed many people&#8230;but his own soul felt quite unenlightened and distant from God.  He wasn&#8217;t even sure if God existed, and was just kind of hoping that if he kept it up that maybe God would have mercy on him.  If you really think about it, his intent during the first 50 years of his life was often fear&#8230;though he wouldn&#8217;t have called it that at the time.  Later in life, he learned to be more aware of intent, and started trying to do the same things he&#8217;d always done with much more deliberate and worshipful intent.  He finally found the God he thought was missing, he found infinitely more joy in the same acts of service, his testimony blossomed.  </p>
<p>Returning to the words of Moroni &#8211; my father gave service (gifts) and prayers and offerings with fear as his intent&#8230;which perhaps is similar to the imagery of a bitter fountain which cannot bring forth good water (or the relationship with God he long desired).  That didn&#8217;t mean that others were incapable of receiving his gifts with good intent.  There were many who received his acts of service with gratitude and thanksgiving&#8230;and that allowed them to be blessed individually for it, even if my dad felt little reward personally.  </p>
<p>My opinion&#8230;it would seem that the good and bad described by Moroni refers less to &#8220;things&#8221; we would traditionally define as being good (scripture reading, prayer, offerings, service)&#8230;and more to do with intent&#8230;or put another way &#8211; attitude/virtue.  Doing things with a true spirit of gratitude/charity/love etc. makes average and mundane things truly &#8220;good&#8221;&#8230;or good for the soul.  For filled with those virtues, which are carefully and deliberately cultivated, all tasks can bring them unto God.  I would argue, as it seems Moroni argues, that the good thing isn&#8217;t the prayer or gift itself, but the spirit in which it is offered.  Perhaps Nephi was teaching the same things as well in the last vs of 2 Ne 32 where he asks us to not perform anything unto the Lord save we first pray, that He may consecrate our performance, that it can be to the welfare of our souls.  Maybe this prayer we offer is to ask God to help us focus on embodying the best intent&#8230;so that whatever it is we are doing can actually build us and those around us.</p>
<p>There is a 17th century monk named Brother Lawrence whose writings are collected in a very short book you can obtain in PDF form called &#8220;Practicing the Presence of God&#8221;.  In it, he declares that God is &#8220;Lord of the pots and the pans&#8221; as much as he is of the sacraments and ordinances.  His job in the monastery was to work in the kitchen, and he learned how to find joy in even the most mundane tasks by doing what he called &#8220;practicing the presence of God&#8221;.  He firmly believed and taught that all of our most mundane tasks can be full of His divine presence, and that this is a skill and gift to be sought after and developed.  </p>
<p>Practically speaking, as you have this unique family circumstance before you, and you find yourself in a moment where you are simply doing something&#8230;see if you can&#8217;t find a way to consecrate that something by finding a motive rooted in virtue.  Perhaps envisioning for even a moment the love that you have for your daughter and grand daughter can be enough to fill the mundane with purpose and meaning.  Perhaps remembering the blessing that you are offering this little child by providing extra security that will bless her for a lifetime will give you added patience in a moment that seems to be calling for impatience. </p>
<p>Whatever it is that you find challenging (from a perspective of intent)&#8230;see if you discover a deeper motivation that can transform the daily grind into the divine pursuit of God.  For he truly is Lord of pots and pans too.  </p>
<p>Blessings to you and your family.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Support for Darwinian Evolution in LDS Scriptures by Frank Staheli</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2009/02/20/support-for-darwinian-evolution-in-lds-scriptures.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167520</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Staheli</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 17:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=1195#comment-167520</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jeff: Well written.  I&#039;ve been thinking about these things for a while now, and I have found great enlightenment to my thought process from this article. Thanks!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: Well written.  I&#8217;ve been thinking about these things for a while now, and I have found great enlightenment to my thought process from this article. Thanks!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167510</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 04:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It depends on the job.  Some things just need to get done.  They don&#039;t need to be perfect and your attitude doesn&#039;t matter. Just do it.  Just set up the chairs or shovel the walks.  Or don&#039;t.  But don&#039;t worry about your attitude because it doesn&#039;t matter, it only matters whether it gets done by someone.  

Some things, mostly those things that include other people, your attitude is almost the only thing that matters.  If you&#039;re going to read bedtime stories to your kids, or have Family home evening, or do hometeaching, or read the scriptures with your spouse, or have family prayer, or anything like that, you better have your head and your heart right or you&#039;re doing more harm than good.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends on the job.  Some things just need to get done.  They don&#8217;t need to be perfect and your attitude doesn&#8217;t matter. Just do it.  Just set up the chairs or shovel the walks.  Or don&#8217;t.  But don&#8217;t worry about your attitude because it doesn&#8217;t matter, it only matters whether it gets done by someone.  </p>
<p>Some things, mostly those things that include other people, your attitude is almost the only thing that matters.  If you&#8217;re going to read bedtime stories to your kids, or have Family home evening, or do hometeaching, or read the scriptures with your spouse, or have family prayer, or anything like that, you better have your head and your heart right or you&#8217;re doing more harm than good.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by jes</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167509</link>
		<dc:creator>jes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 May 2013 03:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would argue your point, Aerin, just a little bit.  You say, &quot;Putting out chairs? I can do it or let someone else do it. There are (seemingly) 500 adults in a ward, surely one could set up chairs. Just because something needs to be done, doesn’t mean I have to do it.&quot;  What happens when everyone in the ward says, &quot;someone else can do it?&quot;  I agree that there are times when we can&#039;t do it all and we don&#039;t have to feel guilty for it. I had this conversation with my daughter just the other day.  She was swamped with end-of-th-year assignments and then received an email the day before a youth combined activity that each YW class was responsible to come up with a game for it.   She started fretting and worrying about how she didn&#039;t have time.  In this case, why should she be the one to take the responsibility?  There are 4 other girls in her class.  And maybe the leaders can learn that advance planning on their part goes a long way in helping the youth to be better involved in the planning (it wasn&#039;t any one leader&#039;s fault - I think there were a lot of people involved in the decision making and it just happened late).  But, the people who step up to the plate and get things organized and get a group working together do a really valuable service in any organization.  If everyone sits on their hands waiting for someone else to do it, nothing would get done - at least nothing for the communal benefit.

As far as LiZ&#039;s question?  Am I a good person because I do good things or do I do good things b/c I&#039;m a good person?  At the end of the day, I don&#039;t think it matters so much b/c the good is getting done.  But if you&#039;re making yourself and those around you miserable by doing those good things, then you&#039;re having a negative effect and you need to figure out if you need to change how you think about it or if you need to change what you&#039;re doing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would argue your point, Aerin, just a little bit.  You say, &#8220;Putting out chairs? I can do it or let someone else do it. There are (seemingly) 500 adults in a ward, surely one could set up chairs. Just because something needs to be done, doesn’t mean I have to do it.&#8221;  What happens when everyone in the ward says, &#8220;someone else can do it?&#8221;  I agree that there are times when we can&#8217;t do it all and we don&#8217;t have to feel guilty for it. I had this conversation with my daughter just the other day.  She was swamped with end-of-th-year assignments and then received an email the day before a youth combined activity that each YW class was responsible to come up with a game for it.   She started fretting and worrying about how she didn&#8217;t have time.  In this case, why should she be the one to take the responsibility?  There are 4 other girls in her class.  And maybe the leaders can learn that advance planning on their part goes a long way in helping the youth to be better involved in the planning (it wasn&#8217;t any one leader&#8217;s fault &#8211; I think there were a lot of people involved in the decision making and it just happened late).  But, the people who step up to the plate and get things organized and get a group working together do a really valuable service in any organization.  If everyone sits on their hands waiting for someone else to do it, nothing would get done &#8211; at least nothing for the communal benefit.</p>
<p>As far as LiZ&#8217;s question?  Am I a good person because I do good things or do I do good things b/c I&#8217;m a good person?  At the end of the day, I don&#8217;t think it matters so much b/c the good is getting done.  But if you&#8217;re making yourself and those around you miserable by doing those good things, then you&#8217;re having a negative effect and you need to figure out if you need to change how you think about it or if you need to change what you&#8217;re doing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by aerin</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167503</link>
		<dc:creator>aerin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 19:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Intent is important.  

There are times when one needs to give up...to recognize that something might not need to be done.  To my mind, a great example is ironing sheets. Evidently my grandmother used to do this, but I see no reason to.  The sheets are clean, I have better things to do with my time.

So for me, the way I figure out if something is needed is if it&#039;s a safety issue.  If it&#039;s not, I really question whether or not it needs to be done.  Putting out chairs?  I can do it or let someone else do it.  There are (seemingly) 500 adults in a ward, surely one could set up chairs.  Just because something needs to be done, doesn&#039;t mean I have to do it.  As I get older, I appreciate the mantra to not do for other adults what they can do for themselves.

Finally, when one does something out of pure obligation, that one hates...it shows.  You can tell.  That&#039;s not saying anyone should pretend to be happy doing something they hate.  It&#039;s that maybe you don&#039;t have to do it.  (Endless meetings are a great example of this, meetings for the sake of meetings).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Intent is important.  </p>
<p>There are times when one needs to give up&#8230;to recognize that something might not need to be done.  To my mind, a great example is ironing sheets. Evidently my grandmother used to do this, but I see no reason to.  The sheets are clean, I have better things to do with my time.</p>
<p>So for me, the way I figure out if something is needed is if it&#8217;s a safety issue.  If it&#8217;s not, I really question whether or not it needs to be done.  Putting out chairs?  I can do it or let someone else do it.  There are (seemingly) 500 adults in a ward, surely one could set up chairs.  Just because something needs to be done, doesn&#8217;t mean I have to do it.  As I get older, I appreciate the mantra to not do for other adults what they can do for themselves.</p>
<p>Finally, when one does something out of pure obligation, that one hates&#8230;it shows.  You can tell.  That&#8217;s not saying anyone should pretend to be happy doing something they hate.  It&#8217;s that maybe you don&#8217;t have to do it.  (Endless meetings are a great example of this, meetings for the sake of meetings).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by jks</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167494</link>
		<dc:creator>jks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 14:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Absolutely it is both. Sometimes it is about having your heart in the right place even though it doesn&#039;t get done properly. Sometimes, who cares how you &quot;feel&quot; you just get it done and that is what is most important.
I think having the discussion about it is important. I like these discussions.
I fully expect the Lord to say &quot;Well done&quot; for both. He says &quot;Well done&quot; when you serve or accomplish something even though you really didn&#039;t want to but it had to be done and you stepped up and did it even though you were miserable while doing it (this is part of being a mom for me....its not like I particularly want to do x,y and z). I also know he says &quot;Well done&quot; because you tried your hardest but in some ways you basically failed and the results don&#039;t seem to match what you thought you were putting into it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely it is both. Sometimes it is about having your heart in the right place even though it doesn&#8217;t get done properly. Sometimes, who cares how you &#8220;feel&#8221; you just get it done and that is what is most important.<br />
I think having the discussion about it is important. I like these discussions.<br />
I fully expect the Lord to say &#8220;Well done&#8221; for both. He says &#8220;Well done&#8221; when you serve or accomplish something even though you really didn&#8217;t want to but it had to be done and you stepped up and did it even though you were miserable while doing it (this is part of being a mom for me&#8230;.its not like I particularly want to do x,y and z). I also know he says &#8220;Well done&#8221; because you tried your hardest but in some ways you basically failed and the results don&#8217;t seem to match what you thought you were putting into it.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Intent by Bookslinger</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2013/05/23/intent.htm/comment-page-1#comment-167490</link>
		<dc:creator>Bookslinger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 May 2013 13:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/?p=6843#comment-167490</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;d love to see you and Nicholeen Peck from Millennialstar.org do a Wife-Swap or Husband-swap episode.

You and annegb, or  annegb and Nicholeen would be good episodes too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d love to see you and Nicholeen Peck from Millennialstar.org do a Wife-Swap or Husband-swap episode.</p>
<p>You and annegb, or  annegb and Nicholeen would be good episodes too.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Why does Peace get no Love? by MCQ</title>
		<link>http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/12/why-does-peace-get-no-love.htm/comment-page-2#comment-167426</link>
		<dc:creator>MCQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 May 2013 19:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mormonmentality.org/2008/03/12/why-does-peace-get-no-love.htm#comment-167426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LDS missionaries do &quot;direct&quot; service as well. If they are proselyting in an area where there are physical needs that need to be met before people can hear the gospel, they can and do help meet those needs.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LDS missionaries do &#8220;direct&#8221; service as well. If they are proselyting in an area where there are physical needs that need to be met before people can hear the gospel, they can and do help meet those needs.</p>
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